Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#101

Post by alexkoeh » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

yuuu wrote: post #67

TIPSIO wrote: post #47

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had movers. I went out of my way to get a cash tip for them earlier. It would have been nice to skip that and just ping it at them somehow without awkwardly saying "Hey friend do you have Venmo? Apple Pay? CashApp? I'd like to tip you. What's your phone number?! Let m…

I had movers a couple months ago and tried to tip them. Note that I don't ever carry cash and am a proponent of abolishing the Federal Reserve. I asked them for their Ethereum or Bitcoin address, and they said, "neither of us don't have that, but we take cash." I calmly tried to explain to them the evils of the Federal Reserve for around five minutes, then began to set them up with their own cryptocurrency wallets on…

This is art

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#102

Post by exikyut » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

twobitshifter wrote: post #54

It notes that it’s supported iPhone XS or later - what feature was added to the XS that is not in the X? When Apple names the “pro” model like this does it mean that the XR from the same generation is not supported?

I too would be extremely interested to know this. The sibling comment referring to NFC looks interesting, but I can't help but think there's an extra dimension or two.

I thought most bank cards used RFID per se as opposed to full NFC.

Plus (and much more significantly) there's the fact that the phone is doing the magic voodoo sekret handshake thing that has been the stomping ground of credit card terminals for only the past two decades or so.

My understanding was that Apple Pay stuck Apple in the middle as an intermediary to the payment, which was internally settled via backend servers. I *think*. I don't think the phones behave as credit cards in the strictest sense - my (pulled out of thin air) guesstimate is that it emulates a credit card to the extent that it make the payment terminal happy, but in such a way that the actual payment settlement is done out of band. Or... something.

Hmmmm, maybe something similar is going on here, where the phone talks the protocol but not strictly exactly the way a payment terminal would, such that Apple ultimately intermediates the final settlement of the transaction.

I feel super dumb here, mostly because this whole world is (sigh very understandably) clandestine. I would be very interested to learn about any high-level "oh okay!" type info on the subject that might be out there!

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#103

Post by danShumway » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

yuuu wrote: post #67

TIPSIO wrote: post #47

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had movers. I went out of my way to get a cash tip for them earlier. It would have been nice to skip that and just ping it at them somehow without awkwardly saying "Hey friend do you have Venmo? Apple Pay? CashApp? I'd like to tip you. What's your phone number?! Let m…

I had movers a couple months ago and tried to tip them. Note that I don't ever carry cash and am a proponent of abolishing the Federal Reserve. I asked them for their Ethereum or Bitcoin address, and they said, "neither of us don't have that, but we take cash." I calmly tried to explain to them the evils of the Federal Reserve for around five minutes, then began to set them up with their own cryptocurrency wallets on…

I love this analogy[0], but to play devil's advocate I do a lot of tipping in cash and it's kind of a pain to break down big bills, so I can see some benefits to normalizing more digital options that actually work.

My bank is digital, it doesn't have a local branch, and most ATMs around me dispense cash in $20 bills. So I can make a small purchase near the ATM if it's in a shop and then ask them to give me change in smaller bills, but usually there's nothing I want. I don't have a local branch to drive to, but maybe other banks would help split bills? It's not awful, but it is pretty inconvenient.

Of course, the way to fix that might not be for everyone to standardize on iPhones, it might be to just have more ATMs that dispense smaller bills. But I do see why someone would find tipping primarily over, say, Venmo preferable, even though I don't think that appeal is enough to outweigh the benefits of cash tips (privacy, universal compatibility, simplicity, etc) in many situations.

Or I could just start tipping everyone everywhere in increments of $20 bills I guess, but I'm not that generous.

----

[0]: assuming you did actually mean it as an analogy for dropping cash for digital payments

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#104

Post by skeeter2020 » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_69 wrote: post #55

TIPSIO wrote: post #47

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had movers. I went out of my way to get a cash tip for them earlier. It would have been nice to skip that and just ping it at them somehow without awkwardly saying "Hey friend do you have Venmo? Apple Pay? CashApp? I'd like to tip you. What's your phone number?! Let m…

Eh, I hope it doesn't. Tipping needs to die out. I'd prefer to have the moving company pay the movers a living wage such that a tip would be unnecessary and politely refused.

Please don't confuse the restaurant industry where tips subsidize wages with the original idea of tipping as a sign of gratitude an thanks. A tip can be a meaningful and impactful way to say "You went beyond expectation, did an awesome job and I really appreciate it". Why would you not want that option?

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#105

Post by nerdjon » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

losvedir wrote: post #33

Is this only for merchants? I feel like here in the US we still don't have a great way to send money back and forth with friends and family. Zelle is decent if both parties' banks support it, but otherwise I've tried Google Pay, Paypal, Venmo, and they all have some problem or another. A lot of them (I'm looking at you PayPal) require you to give them your bank username and password!

I could have sworn there was something about being able to hold 2 iPhones together to initiate sharing something with Apple Pay to a friend.

That being said, I use Apple Pay all the time to send money between my partner and me. It is tied to iMessage but since we are always texting anyways it is super convenient. But the convenience may largely be due to already having my payment information as part of Apple Pay to begin with. But it just uses my debit card to send money, it doesn't need access to my bank account.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#106

Post by wil421 » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #26

Kinda weird. If a rando retail person pulls out their iPhone and asks me to tap... that's kinda strange in my mind. Something about "how do I know that isn't their personal phone?" would pop in my head. But things that seem awkward can become commonplace.

I pay for house cleaning via Venmo. I’ve also paid for some other work via Venmo including landscaping, tree service, and HVAC work. It’s all from small business owners who use their personal phones.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#107

Post by londons_explore » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

TIPSIO wrote: post #47

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had movers. I went out of my way to get a cash tip for them earlier. It would have been nice to skip that and just ping it at them somehow without awkwardly saying "Hey friend do you have Venmo? Apple Pay? CashApp? I'd like to tip you. What's your phone number?! Let m…

Indeed - I'm really surprised that Apple doesn't have some kind of "just pay another apple user" feature.

I know that would open them up to lots of KYC requirements, as well as require them to do some of the evil things that financial laws require (eg. tracking all payments, closing accounts and banning users for certain things while not being able to tell the users why, freezing users money till they can present documents they don't have, etc.)

But it still seems worth it to take over the payments space from venmo, cashapp and paypal, make the wall to switching to android a little taller, etc.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#108

Post by unethical_ban » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

throwaway22032 wrote: post #74

TIPSIO wrote: post #47

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had movers. I went out of my way to get a cash tip for them earlier. It would have been nice to skip that and just ping it at them somehow without awkwardly saying "Hey friend do you have Venmo? Apple Pay? CashApp? I'd like to tip you. What's your phone number?! Let m…

Quoted post unavailable.

I have to go out of my way to have any cash, which I do, since I happen to go to bars that still accept cash (many in my area are cashless). It's nice to throw down cash in a crowd vs. trying to swipe and sign when the line is crazy.

To get money, I have to drive to an ATM and pay 1-5% fee to convert my money from bits to paper. Fortunately I have a bank that refunds ATM fees.

The point of this thread is that we are one step closer to making your first scenario "Hey let me tap you the money" and that's the end of the discussion.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#109

Post by MBCook » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #17

I wonder what role GS, the Apple Pay backend, has in this, if they are involved at all.

I’m guessing none. It sounds like software developers will have to bring their own CC processing for this, not that it will use some centralized Apple designated processor.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#110

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

yuuu wrote: post #67

TIPSIO wrote: post #47

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had movers. I went out of my way to get a cash tip for them earlier. It would have been nice to skip that and just ping it at them somehow without awkwardly saying "Hey friend do you have Venmo? Apple Pay? CashApp? I'd like to tip you. What's your phone number?! Let m…

I had movers a couple months ago and tried to tip them. Note that I don't ever carry cash and am a proponent of abolishing the Federal Reserve. I asked them for their Ethereum or Bitcoin address, and they said, "neither of us don't have that, but we take cash." I calmly tried to explain to them the evils of the Federal Reserve for around five minutes, then began to set them up with their own cryptocurrency wallets on…

I can vouch for that story.

I also had movers, and wanted to tip them. When I asked what they took. I was shocked when they said Bitcoin!

They said some person that they had helped move before had helped them set up bitcoin addresses.

They were so excited by this. It was also pretty easy to convince them to read me both their public and private keys for those addresses (I told them that if I sent it to their public key, it would be public so their boss and the IRS would find out, however, if they gave me the private key, it would be completely private).

I then tipped both of them $50. They were so overjoyed.

Then later that night, I emptied both of their wallets.

(By the way, to the OP, thanks for teaching them about cryptocurrency, and for the $10).

/s just in case anybody is confused