Earlier quoted context omitted.
In competitive gaming, having an actually fair game matters more than having a fair feeling game.
In proper competitive gaming (ie. with a prize pool) you can apply much more rigorous standards like kyc, a live video feed; even standardized hardware and drug tests.
Thank You, Valve
421–430 of 458 posts
Re: Thank You, Valve
#422Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm sure many would happily drop 32bit games support for that. Really? There are still many x86-only games on Steam, tons of which probably won't ever be updated. And if Valve does not make that clear on the Store pages then they will receive part of the blame and support burden. I think what is more likely to happen is for Steam to come with it's own 32-bit dependencies that marshal to the 64-bit system GL/Vulkan/…
Yes really, I have no interest in playing 32bit games on Linux, and Valve could make it blatantly obvious that a 64bit client cannot play 32bit games. So if Valve is really concerned, just make the 32bit client download primary and have the 64bit download behind some EULA that explains that it only supports 64bit games. In fact, I'm mostly on MacOS M1, and there is only a 64bit client on that. Sure, the game collecti…
Re: Thank You, Valve
#423Earlier quoted context omitted.
Was there an attempt at detecting cheaters by modeling human reaction times and otherwise inputs, and thus detecting non-human like inputs?
Yes. Here's a good perspective on the situation by someone who was cheating: https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/4k17n8/confess...
However, there is nothing there that should be hard to pick up by modelling normal behavior, and then being able to flag the anomalies. Most things he manipulated were known server side. Going the route of installing rootkits seems like fools errand to me, of which I can understand a possible non-nefarious intention behind... but it starts stinking to high water unless the other more obvious approaches are not seriously exhausted.
Develop mathematical models for likelihoods of cheating based on user input, and non-conforming game states. Create a heuristic that takes into account time spent and the possible cost of losing progress. Move possible cheaters into isolated environments where they go up against each-other. Or subtly punish by reducing drop rates.
In the post you linked to, he mentioned things like. 125-500% move speed. 200-2500% DMG increases, by manipulating client side states. However, surely, this is trivial to detect server side?
The hardest things I can imagine detecting are probably stochastic cheats like randomly improving your aim and reaction time, but these arguably less severe, to a point where if it becomes super-human, it again becomes detectable. And, these are also the kind of cheats that typically can be done through user input, and thus very easy to make undetectable to any root-kit like anti cheat.
For lest than the cost of one AAA game, you can buy the hardware required to do this processing completely outside of any rootkit. If cheating is your thing, and based on the post in question, the cheater could make back this investment in 15 minutes... arguably.
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But, to sort reply to your answer to my question. I'm curious, do you have some more details other than "yes"? The post you linked, to me, read as "nope, The Division does not do that this at all. And if they did, very few things this person did would have been possible".
Re: Thank You, Valve
#424Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are small subset of players because there are no wide support for gaming on Linux. If this change by game developers then this percentage will increase dramatically.
There's no wide support for gaming on Linux Desktop because historically there hasn't been anything one could call "The Linux Desktop" for them to target. The landscape is so ludicrously fragmented that you can't rely on any software to be installed other than the kernel. Valve got around this by just packing their own runtime libraries with Steam.
(*) Audio subststem devs' insistence on reinventing APIs is disappointing, but just use SDL or OpenAL Soft or whatever to abstract it for you or tell your users to use the available compatibility tools.
Re: Thank You, Valve
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was pretty obvious when Stadia "made" devs port to Linux. When the economic incentive was there, the technology wasn't much of an issue.
Staia presented a known system to target, not a fragmented mess of ever changing 'distributions' that don't even attempt to maintain binary compatibility for a single release.
I'm not sure what Stadia includes in their base system but if they have any interest in long-terms maintenance then I'd expect that the base system is minimal and everything else is bundled with the game - even if provided by an SDK.
Re: Thank You, Valve
#426As a game dev it surprises me the constant push from some Linux players to still make a native Linux version, considering how good Valve's Proton layer is. I don't think they understand that while making a new Linux build can be trivial (in Unity), dealing with all the support issues for that isn't. I don't have time to track down audio issues for some random Linux version for 0.001% of players Yet if I say I'll only…
* Proton is a very useful tool, but it is and will always be chasing a moving target. Any game update can break Proton compat and Wine/Proton is complex enough that updates do sometimes regress support for some games. Do I really want to invest (time wise and emotionally) in games that could just stop working?
* I want my platform to be officially supported. That does not mean that every niche issue needs to be fixed but I should at least be entitled to a refund if I cannot get the game to work or if it stops working due to game updates - without any limitations.
* I also care about Linux getting better and better supported long term. I care more about making sure that I have a free and open platform in the future than I care about being able to play any particular game now. The best way for that to happen is more people developing for Linux. Maybe Proton will help by allowing more people to switch their primary OS to Linux, increasing demand for Linux SW, but ultimately I think living off Microsoft's scraps will not end well for Linux and direct support is needed. Anti-cheat already shows that emulation without developer support has its limits.
* Somewhat relatedly, I want more developers to be exposed to open source operating systems and software with the hope that they see how having full source access to the entire stack and liberal licenses for distributing modifications benefits everyone and will extend that philosophy to their own software where possible - and games are a particular type of software where the code of most games is pretty much worthless to competitors by the time the game is released but making it available can greatly benefit users through greater potential for modification and better options for long term maintenance.
* I like being appreciated. Do I really want to financially support someone who writes me off as a statistic? Sure, game developers need to eat and I understand that that sometimes means not being able to support minority platforms, but if profit is the only thing you are concerned about then being in games development is probably not the best way to achieve that anyway. Maybe you don't care about my platform - and that's fine, we can't all care about everything - but then it's only fair that I don't care about your game.
Meanwhile I have over 500 unplayed native games in my Steam library and, even with Proton, enough native games are being released that I will most likely never catch up. I do use Proton - like vanilla Wine before it - when there is something that seems interesting enough (mostly older games that have stood the test of time) but generally I just don't feel a need to. Even if I were to run out of native games and had to resort more to Proton, I am also much more willing to pay full price or even preorder when it comes to native games.
> I don't have time to track down audio issues for some random Linux version for 0.001% of players
Then don't? If you don't think it is worth your time to fix certain issues then you can always say that and people can get a refund if that is a deal breaker. Are you not going to release Windows builds because you can't work around some weird hardware issue or third-party tool messing with your game for 0.1% of your Windows users?
One good way for dealing with support load is to enable your community to do the grunt work for you by having a public issue tracker. This works especially well for the Linux community where more people will be used to reporting bugs rather than asking for support but is even something that I would suggest for Windows-only software as well. Valve has been using GitHub for this: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux
Re: Thank You, Valve
#427Earlier quoted context omitted.
> corporations are not our friends While true, good luck living your life without dealing with a corporation. In fact, you're a dollar sign for your next door shop as well.
Exactly, mom & pop shop doing it for the money too. Mom & Pop good at making pies, you’re good at fixing cars. Instead of bartering, you exchange cash. Mom & Pop happy their car is fixed, you get pies in return. Everyone is happy, every one benefits, despite money exchanged. No one sceptical that mom & pop doing it for cash.
Re: Thank You, Valve
#428Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well seeing as there is little to no consensus on whether certain tech companies have a monopoly or not... I'd say it's a hard line to draw.
I think this is just because we misuse the word monopoly. Monopolies in tech are pretty rare I think, especially things like online services -- it is pretty hard to completely dominate a market when there are other big tech companies out there and they all dabble in everything. However, tech companies engage in anti-competitive behavior all the time. Unfortunately people want to say "monopoly" when they see anti-comp…
Re: Thank You, Valve
#429Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What they did for Linux as a gaming platform is spectacular. Definitely yes, but let's not kid ourselves. Valve is not doing this from the generosity of their hearts or love for the Linux community, or the gaming community, but Proton and the Steam Deck are their future insurance policy against Microsoft coming after their profits in the future. The writing was on the wall, they saw how much money Epic was giving to…
I don't care for underlying motives as long as the results are aligned with mine. The end result is that landscape is better for the customer. I seriously do not get why people think that companies do 'good' for any other reason than money.
Because companies are made up of people and people are capable of doing things for reasons other than money.
Re: Thank You, Valve
#430Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not to mention 99% of the cracked games out there come with fun little friends that will encrypt your hard drive for you and charge you a nominal fee.
I've gotten a virus only twice in my life. Both times, it was an ad on the cyanide and happiness website. The worst thing that's ever happened to me from pirating games is the keygen having loud unexpected music.
You mean the best thing, right? <3 chiptunes