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Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

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Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#91

Post by neximo64 »

yosito wrote: post #14

As a nomad, and someone who's traveled to 40 countries and speaks 3 languages, I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. I think trying to make all passports equal is the wrong solution. Passports are issued by the authority of a country, and not all countries have equal authority on the world stage. UN issued passports might be a pos…

There exists a UN issued passport, the Laissez passer, but its not used for the purpose of leisure.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#92

Post by YEwSdObPQT »

magicalhippo wrote: post #89
YEwSdObPQT wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I can see some of the objections, it seems reasonable that a temporary restriction of freedom like that gets documented. Any temporary restriction will become permanent. They always tell people it is going to be "temporary" and "there will be protections put in place". All it does is normalise such restrictions and then when anyone objects to people will say "Well it been in place now for a while, it is norma…

I meant temporary in the sense that police stopping you and asking for your ID is, for people with an ID, a temporary restriction of freedom. You can't just go saying you'll miss the bus. As such I think it's good that the police have to leave a paper trail.

Yeah I misunderstood what you said.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#93

Post by anovikov »

tzs wrote: post #84
anovikov wrote: post #31

But this is precisely the point of nationhood at all. Otherwise, what is the meaning of one's nationality? This is opportunity which gives you an unfair advantage vs less fortunate nations, which your forefathers created and defended for you and you can enjoy - and defend for your posterity. It is like capital: you can be born into money and enjoy the unfair advantage of never having to work 9-5. Just collective, sha…

> But this is precisely the point of nationhood at all. Otherwise, what is the meaning of one's nationality? If it was the point of nationhood then wouldn't we expect immigration control to be one of the first things new nations implement? Yet the United States had wide open borders until 1875, 83-99 years (depending on who you ask) into nationhood. It wasn't until the Page Act in 1875 that restricted immigration of…

Maybe this is precisely because before 1875, the country had a lot more land than people, and simply needed to fill in the ranks? Canada and Australia does the same till now (ok there's a point-based system but it's so easy anyone qualifies).

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#94

Post by robertlagrant »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #66
robertlagrant wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "actual answer" here seems just aspirational. If it basically means "you have to spend enough money until everywhere else is so nice that no one wants to move to your country" then that is more money than there is. In the meantime, how do you create a system that doesn't require that amount of money?

In general, we'll all just have to do with less toys and disposable things and pay more for food. That is, until we do more with robotics in mining and food production and the like. More realistically, a good start would invest without expecting repayment, set standards for people and make sure others have rights, and stop meddling in other governments in general just because they aren't nice to your country. You won…

> we'll all just have to do with less toys and disposable things and pay more for food

This will be nowhere near enough. Maybe 5%.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#95

Post by soueuls »

bradlys wrote: post #90

Sure - it does. But it first needs equality between countries. This means that the wage, cost of living, and quality of life is generally quite comparable between countries. One country is not pillaging another and one does not exploit the other - etc. The problem is that neoliberals and capitalists don’t want this because then they can’t have as cheap of a slave class that they currently do. HN is full of these type…

How would you achieve this when people don't value the same things? Teachers are well paid in the US and Germany, not so much in Hungary and Turkey.

Who is going to impose what is to be valued by society? You basically just want to deprive countries from having any kind of political freedom, choices, their own personal destiny, success and failures. What a sad world to live in.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#96

Post by YEwSdObPQT »

mcv wrote: post #87
rndgermandude wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nearly everyone has a driver's license I remember hearing a lot about new "voter id" laws, and how they are supposedly meant to suppress the vote of poorer minorities, who often do not possess a driver's license (or a car) - especially affecting the older generations of poor minority people most likely to vote.

I think all sorts of id laws, whether for voting or other purposes, puts a requirement on the government to ensure that everybody has as few obstacles as possible to getting an id. From what I understand, many states with voter id laws didn't do that, and in some cases only accepted forms of id that poor or black voters were less likely to have.

>From what I understand, many states with voter id laws didn't do that, and in some cases only accepted forms of id that poor or black voters were less likely to have.

When I was earning minimum wage when stacking shelves I managed to sort out an ID fine. This idea that Black people or poor people can't get ID is just the bigotry of low expectations.

I personally think it is extremely racist to assume that Black people aren't capable of filling out the required forms for Identification or being able to front the cost of an ID.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#97

Post by bradlys »

soueuls wrote: post #95
bradlys wrote: post #90

Sure - it does. But it first needs equality between countries. This means that the wage, cost of living, and quality of life is generally quite comparable between countries. One country is not pillaging another and one does not exploit the other - etc. The problem is that neoliberals and capitalists don’t want this because then they can’t have as cheap of a slave class that they currently do. HN is full of these type…

How would you achieve this when people don't value the same things? Teachers are well paid in the US and Germany, not so much in Hungary and Turkey. Who is going to impose what is to be valued by society? You basically just want to deprive countries from having any kind of political freedom, choices, their own personal destiny, success and failures. What a sad world to live in.

What kind of straw man argument is that? Come back with a better one.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#98

Post by hypertele-Xii »

mcv wrote: post #48
tjansen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but you need an identity card (which looks pretty much like a drivers license). Unlike passports, every citizen has one.

That's simply not true. The only identity card I have is a passport. I actually thought the big advantage of id cards over passports was that they would be much cheaper or free, but I just checked, and in Netherland they're only slightly cheaper. It's effectively just a form of limited passport. And clearly not everybody has an id card. It's just that everybody has to have a form of id, which is either a passport or…

I currently have no valid identification whatsoever (everything's expired). I could walk across Europe and nobody can stop me.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#99

Post by soueuls »

bradlys wrote: post #97
soueuls wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you achieve this when people don't value the same things? Teachers are well paid in the US and Germany, not so much in Hungary and Turkey. Who is going to impose what is to be valued by society? You basically just want to deprive countries from having any kind of political freedom, choices, their own personal destiny, success and failures. What a sad world to live in.

What kind of straw man argument is that? Come back with a better one.

There is no strawman here. The fact that countries value education/healthcare/tech/industry/environment/etc differently, means that you will not reach wage equality.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#100

Post by yosito »

VictorPath wrote: post #47
yosito wrote: post #14

As a nomad, and someone who's traveled to 40 countries and speaks 3 languages, I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. I think trying to make all passports equal is the wrong solution. Passports are issued by the authority of a country, and not all countries have equal authority on the world stage. UN issued passports might be a pos…

> The truth is, the world is not an equal place. Never has been, and never will be. From the time of the cave paintings and Venus figurines 50,000 years ago (and before that) until 10,000 years ago, there is no evidence of inequality, class society or surplus production anywhere. Nor today in the few remaining hunter gatherer bands in the world today. 2000 years ago travel 100km north of modern Stockholm and you foun…

Would love to see some evidence of your claims.
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