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You can change your number

signal.org

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Re: You can change your number

#151

Post by TacticalCoder »

rcarback wrote: post #136

It is early stage, but there is now an alternative to Signal that doesn't use phone numbers at all: https://xx.network/messenger/ While you can add your number to be searchable by others, it doesn't let strangers with your number know you signed up automatically, either. Full disclosure: I work on the infrastructure behind it.

Yup. For those who don't know that is David Chaum's quantum-resistant messenger and he's an OG cryptographer (and he's mentioned in Bitcoin's original whitepaper, funnily enough).

> Full disclosure: I work on the infrastructure behind it.

Oh cool... I ran a node for many months during the beta (from home, fiber optic at home). I'm busy atm so I'm not running anything anymore but I do really hope that a real secure messenger that doesn't leak metadata left and right, and which uses advanced cryptography, shall eventually prevail.

Re: You can change your number

#152

Post by wolverine876 »

tptacek wrote: post #63
charcircuit wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never used a contact list for my "buddies." We just have each other added on Discord.

Discord works by keeping a serverside database of which people are talking to which people, which is, to a serious adversary, the most valuable single piece of information the service can cough up. Discord is much, much more convenient than Signal, and that's good. The services have different goals.

How is Discord more convenient? I don't mean the question critically, but I wonder what a sophisticated user sees in Discord when Signal seems, to me, as convenient as texting and calling.

Re: You can change your number

#153

Post by gaius_baltar »

Vinnl wrote: post #2

> We built Change Number using the foundation of more exciting features to come. Surely this is referring to the ability to use a non-phone number ID, which they've hinted at before [1]. Looking forward to that, only because I know many others are! [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/kt91qk/comment/...

> Surely this is referring to the ability to use a non-phone number ID,

They are promising this for years and years, I hope this time is real. Specially if we don't need a phone number to create an account: that's just incompatible with privacy.

Re: You can change your number

#154

Post by wolverine876 »

tptacek wrote: post #22
viccuad wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I'm surprised, after a decade stating that phone numbers were great for ID.

They're great compared to the alternative of simply storing a plaintext register of every pair of communicating parties on the server, which is how other messengers work. What's "good" about phone numbers is that they're tied clientside to a "buddy list" that everyone already keeps --- their contact list. They don't want phone numbers on the merits of phone numbers.

Also, Signal envisions (or envisioned) contact lists as a foundation for a distributed, secure, private social network, under end-user control. It's an obvious solution once you think about it (a signal of brilliance).

Re: You can change your number

#156

Post by seanw444 »

mlissner wrote: post #57
toast0 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applications can't determine when they're uninstalled. Or, not reliably anyway, and not while following platform guidelines. So the question becomes how to tell uninstalled vs left in a drawer, powered down, while on vacation.

They just have to tell you if a message isn't received after a day or two. This is already exposed via the check marks, so it's just something they have to amplify with a notification. Or when you start writing a message to somebody, if they haven't read the last couple messages signal could make that obvious. Etc. Lots of easy fixes.

Those both rely on the assumption that being offline for a little while = app uninstalled. Not always so.

Re: You can change your number

#157

Post by throwawayben »

Talanes wrote: post #72
jack_pp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but do you need data for common sense? Is WhatsApp one of the biggest messaging platforms where people don't talk to their close friends and family? You think discord or other mediums are more popular than iMessage and WhatsApp?

I mean, I guess I do? I'm legitimately unsure if I'm in some weird bubble where no one uses WhatsApp or you're in a bubble of unusually high usage. But it's been a small enough part of my life that I'm not even fully sure what the connection is. It uses your contact list as well?

I assume you're in the US? As I understand it, it's less popular there.

I'd say at least 95% of smart phone users in the UK use WhatsApp. I think that's probably true of the rest of Europe as well.

Re: You can change your number

#158

Post by goatsi »

usea wrote: post #8

How can I use this without a phone or phone number at all? If I am concerned about privacy, why would I give them that access and information when it's not necessary for the service? Surely they are only trying to gather information on their users. Whether it's being sold, breached, or used for ad targeting, I am not interested. It comes across as a scam. I cannot take seriously any claims made by the company or its…

Using phone numbers as identifiers for encrypted messages is the core feature of Signal. It was marketed from day one as a drop in SMS replacement. Initially it even used SMS as the transport for encrypted messages. It was literally called "TextSecure". This is why I have always found the attacks on it using phone numbers to be amusing.

Re: You can change your number

#159

Post by mlissner »

seanw444 wrote: post #156
mlissner wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just have to tell you if a message isn't received after a day or two. This is already exposed via the check marks, so it's just something they have to amplify with a notification. Or when you start writing a message to somebody, if they haven't read the last couple messages signal could make that obvious. Etc. Lots of easy fixes.

Those both rely on the assumption that being offline for a little while = app uninstalled. Not always so.

They can just say the message wasn't received. They don't have to say it was uninstalled. Just loudly tell me things aren't working like I expected. That's all this takes.

Re: You can change your number

#160

Post by godelski »

Vinnl wrote: post #2

> We built Change Number using the foundation of more exciting features to come. Surely this is referring to the ability to use a non-phone number ID, which they've hinted at before [1]. Looking forward to that, only because I know many others are! [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/kt91qk/comment/...

I think the real question is what "usernames" will look like. There were hints dropped that this could be stronger than a typical username (like what HN has). I took a poll on reddit[0][1] to see what people wanted. I was rather surprised at how many wanted strong anonymity. I expected that the top choice would be the weak anonymity, where people just have an alternative to phone numbers. But I think if that's what Signal was rolling out then it would have been here already. So I hope they make anonymous communication available to everyone. I don't expect strong anonymity in the initial rollout, but I hope that is what they are working towards.

As I see it, there are three aspects to protected communication: privacy (no one sees what you're saying), anonymity (no one sees who's communication), and censorship prevention (no one can shut down communication). If we get strong anonymity in Signal then that is 2/3 and would be a great leap forward for free speech _everywhere_. I expect censorship prevention to be the hardest of these to tackle, even with decentralization.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/skoaf6/poll_why_do_...

[1] Yes, I realize there are issues with the poll. Polling is hard.

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