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You can change your number

signal.org

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Re: You can change your number

#51

Post by tapoxi »

usea wrote: post #8

How can I use this without a phone or phone number at all? If I am concerned about privacy, why would I give them that access and information when it's not necessary for the service? Surely they are only trying to gather information on their users. Whether it's being sold, breached, or used for ad targeting, I am not interested. It comes across as a scam. I cannot take seriously any claims made by the company or its…

They're working on usernames, but what's the privacy concern around using your phone number? Is it to be pseudononymous?

My use case for Signal is friends and family, and it was easy to get everyone onboard because we all have each other's phone numbers already and didn't need to build a new list of contacts. It's a drop-in Android-compatible replacement for iMessage.

Re: You can change your number

#52

Post by Talanes »

bogota wrote: post #44
charcircuit wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never used a contact list for my "buddies." We just have each other added on Discord.

I can assure you that most people do use phone contact lists for their intended purpose. I’m not sure what your comment is trying to get at other than being argumentative for whatever reason.

Do you have data on that, or are you just asserting that your personal experience is more universal than their personal experience?

I don't think they're totally off-base: I haven't used my phone contact list for personal contacts for most of the last decade. It's just a collection of work contacts that I don't trust enough to add anywhere I actually talk to people.

Re: You can change your number

#53

Post by mikepurvis »

charcircuit wrote: post #37
tptacek wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're great compared to the alternative of simply storing a plaintext register of every pair of communicating parties on the server, which is how other messengers work. What's "good" about phone numbers is that they're tied clientside to a "buddy list" that everyone already keeps --- their contact list. They don't want phone numbers on the merits of phone numbers.

I've never used a contact list for my "buddies." We just have each other added on Discord.

I haven't historically— multiple rounds of old flip phones and early Android devices with zero migration story made me wary of overly investing in anything on-device.

However, the current wave of phone-number-tied messengers (WhatsApp, Signal) have definitely pushed me in that direction.

Re: You can change your number

#54

Post by theamk »

tptacek wrote: post #22
viccuad wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I'm surprised, after a decade stating that phone numbers were great for ID.

They're great compared to the alternative of simply storing a plaintext register of every pair of communicating parties on the server, which is how other messengers work. What's "good" about phone numbers is that they're tied clientside to a "buddy list" that everyone already keeps --- their contact list. They don't want phone numbers on the merits of phone numbers.

This decision seems pretty crazy to me, especially on the cell phones where a lot of apps require phone book access to function, and there is generally no way to give a different view to different apps.

I understand that Signal wants to be blame it all on users, but the practical consequence of their design is that the moment people want to talk to a single person on Whatsapp, they give out Signal contact list to Facebook.. and the moment they start using Google's backup, they give out Signal contact list to Google.. and if they ever buy a new phone, they share Signal contact list with whoever wrote migration tool for their data. And there are tons of other random apps which all require contact list access...

From the privacy standpoint, Signal having contact list would be better. At least then, I'd have a single party to worry about, instead of dozens.

Re: You can change your number

#55

Post by fartcannon »

killingtime74 wrote: post #13
viccuad wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I'm surprised, after a decade stating that phone numbers were great for ID.

It shows they have an open mind I guess

To me, it shows that whatever agent is pushing signal adoption has seen the writing on the wall and is trying to get ahead before the tide changes and they have to hit some other developers with wrenches.

;)

Re: You can change your number

#56

Post by sa1 »

colordrops wrote: post #23
usea wrote: post #8

How can I use this without a phone or phone number at all? If I am concerned about privacy, why would I give them that access and information when it's not necessary for the service? Surely they are only trying to gather information on their users. Whether it's being sold, breached, or used for ad targeting, I am not interested. It comes across as a scam. I cannot take seriously any claims made by the company or its…

This is for proctecting your data from other end users. Signal still needs your number to provide to three letter agencies.

On the contrary, they started out with phone numbers so that they could avoid storing user data on their servers.

The whole plan to finally have usernames comes down to their use of Intel SGX.

Re: You can change your number

#57

Post by mlissner »

toast0 wrote: post #38
mlissner wrote: post #15

This is fine, but signal still doesn't tell you when the person you're sending to has uninstalled signal. Instead, your messages go into ether and you think the person is ignoring you. It blows my mind they haven't prioritized this. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/11164

Applications can't determine when they're uninstalled. Or, not reliably anyway, and not while following platform guidelines. So the question becomes how to tell uninstalled vs left in a drawer, powered down, while on vacation.

They just have to tell you if a message isn't received after a day or two. This is already exposed via the check marks, so it's just something they have to amplify with a notification.

Or when you start writing a message to somebody, if they haven't read the last couple messages signal could make that obvious. Etc. Lots of easy fixes.

Re: You can change your number

#58

Post by nottorp »

grlass wrote: post #31
Waterluvian wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is eating up 11GB of my iOS space. There is no way to clear it without completely uninstalling and reinstalling. And then the problem just resets and grows again. It’s a ridiculously consequential bug and they don’t seem motivated to even comment. Pretty sad.

Signal keeps all downloaded media locally until you delete it. They don't have the resources to store files on the cloud, even encrypted, and don't appear to have taken WhatsApp's approach of backing up unencrypted media and messages on user's third-party cloud services like Google Drive and iCloud. You can mitigate this by having disappearing chats (current longest self-destruct time is 4 weeks), or by going to Sett…

Whatsapp can be configured to not save all the cat photos and memes to your library by default. You can still save the really good memes yourself if you want. Signal should just copy that feature.

Also, what good is secure encryption if i have to give out my phone number?

Re: You can change your number

#59

Post by theamk »

caslon wrote: post #43
charcircuit wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never used a contact list for my "buddies." We just have each other added on Discord.

Discord keeps your friend information on their servers. This is, like tptacek said, exactly what Signal is trying to prevent. If servers get seized by the Feds, they don't want to needlessly reveal who's contacting who for everyone. It's about storing as little personal information as they can.

Question: do you use Signal? If yes, are you backing up/syncing your contact list? If yes, are you worried about Feds coming for your backup/sync provider?

Re: You can change your number

#60

Post by jack_pp »

Talanes wrote: post #52
bogota wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you that most people do use phone contact lists for their intended purpose. I’m not sure what your comment is trying to get at other than being argumentative for whatever reason.

Do you have data on that, or are you just asserting that your personal experience is more universal than their personal experience? I don't think they're totally off-base: I haven't used my phone contact list for personal contacts for most of the last decade. It's just a collection of work contacts that I don't trust enough to add anywhere I actually talk to people.

I'm sorry but do you need data for common sense? Is WhatsApp one of the biggest messaging platforms where people don't talk to their close friends and family? You think discord or other mediums are more popular than iMessage and WhatsApp?
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