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Roman slaveowners were the first management theorists?

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Re: Roman slaveowners were the first management theorists?

#21

Post by Telemakhos »

atdrummond wrote: post #4

First management theorists or first recorded management theorists? I feel like there are similarly (or nearly as) advanced cultures in this approximate era for whom we unfortunately have significantly less recorded material - and often what we do have was created by other civilizations (such as Rome itself or Greek city-states) who interacted with said people. These persons surely had theories of management for their…

I wonder why Xenophon's _Oeconomicus_ didn't qualify as management theory. That's exactly what it is, and it dates back to classical Athena.

Re: Roman slaveowners were the first management theorists?

#22

Post by usrusr »

pohl wrote: post #7
usrusr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A semantic pedantry argument could be made that recorded material is what separates the theorist from the practitioner. Easily countered of course by remarking that records getting lost over the course of a few millennia shouldn't make a theorist less of a theorist. Personally, I'm fine with adding an implicit "that we know of" to every "first".

Oral traditon is a kind of lossy recording on oddly volatile media.

Thanks for addressing the glaring hole I suspected my argument might have, PR accepted!

Re: Roman slaveowners were the first management theorists?

#23

Post by toiletfuneral »

quocanh wrote: post #18
britch wrote: post #10

What a strange piece. Putting the reader in the master's perspective certainly is a choice. It fails to investigate that almost anyone in its ostensible audience of corporate managers is both a "master" and "slave" (mangers have managers). An incredibly grim takeaway as well. It acknowledges the exploitation in both systems, but doesn't ask you to do anything about it or interrogate it deeper. There's no way that you…

You definitely have to be opened minded in order to read this. I can see how this could be offensive or distasteful but from a purely academic point of view it's interesting to see that a master-slave relationship was more than a contractual relationship. Leadership was just as important in that relationship as it is in a manager-employee relationship. And although we have since abolished slavery, we will always need…

No post body was provided.

Re: Roman slaveowners were the first management theorists?

#25

Post by atdrummond »

Telemakhos wrote: post #21
atdrummond wrote: post #4

First management theorists or first recorded management theorists? I feel like there are similarly (or nearly as) advanced cultures in this approximate era for whom we unfortunately have significantly less recorded material - and often what we do have was created by other civilizations (such as Rome itself or Greek city-states) who interacted with said people. These persons surely had theories of management for their…

I wonder why Xenophon's _Oeconomicus_ didn't qualify as management theory. That's exactly what it is, and it dates back to classical Athena.

Thanks - I wanted to cite Xenophon but couldn't decide if it was Oeconomicus alone or whether one could argue that the Lacedaemonion Politeia includes an assessment of Spartan economic management with regards to their Helot-based economy.

Re: Roman slaveowners were the first management theorists?

#26

Post by [deleted] »

petesergeant wrote: post #13

This is a confused article. > Most Romans ... thought cruelty to slaves was shocking but also > did not hesitate to punish their slaves, and to punish brutally. Floggings, crucifixions, torture by means of the rack and breaking the legs with iron bars would all be carried out in public to maximise the impact on the observers. Or a slave’s children might be sold off, never to be seen again. ... so, not that shocking?

[deleted]

Re: Roman slaveowners were the first management theorists?

#27

Post by wins32767 »

"And just as a household needed slaves, so companies need staff. Permanent employees, like slaves, are far more desirable than outsourcing to outsiders. The Romans thought external contractors could never be relied on like members of the primary social group. They failed to turn up when instructed to, took liberties with their fees and, taking little pride in their work, carried out their tasks shoddily. With slaves, however, who were stakeholders in the system, the Romans could be sure that work would be carried out as they wanted it."

I'm not sure this is a helpful paragraph for convincing people to learn from Roman management practices.

Re: Roman slaveowners were the first management theorists?

#28

Post by jacquesm »

quocanh wrote: post #18
britch wrote: post #10

What a strange piece. Putting the reader in the master's perspective certainly is a choice. It fails to investigate that almost anyone in its ostensible audience of corporate managers is both a "master" and "slave" (mangers have managers). An incredibly grim takeaway as well. It acknowledges the exploitation in both systems, but doesn't ask you to do anything about it or interrogate it deeper. There's no way that you…

You definitely have to be opened minded in order to read this. I can see how this could be offensive or distasteful but from a purely academic point of view it's interesting to see that a master-slave relationship was more than a contractual relationship. Leadership was just as important in that relationship as it is in a manager-employee relationship. And although we have since abolished slavery, we will always need…

Think about the risks! Anything your slave does that damages other people's properties or causes them to lose life or limb is your responsibility.

Those poor masters.

Seriously, anything that attempts to be 'open minded' about slavery starts off on the wrong premise: that there are useful lessons to be learned there about human interaction. It's a well that is so thoroughly poisoned that it is probably better to stay away from it lest you be infected.

Re: Roman slaveowners were the first management theorists?

#29

Post by jacquesm »

aluminussoma wrote: post #8

I was taught that management theory sprung from army management. These were the first organizations that required coordinating very large groups of people - in the life or death situations of war, and in the brutal monotony of peace. I doubt that there were enough slaveowners or slaves in charge to contribute anything substantial to the management profession. It is an interesting tale in today's sentiment of antiwork…

That's one thing the Romans did pretty good.
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