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/r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

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171–180 of 566 posts

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>have its cake and eat it too whenever i have cake, i tend to eat it also?

Once you eat the cake, you can no longer possess it EDIT: Let me make it more clear, as English may not be your first language, if you're asking this question in truth (I sometimes miss sarcasm online, sorry). Cakes can be beautiful things which people (of a certain time period, especially) wanted to show off as a sign of their wealth, as refined sugar was expensive. Once it was eaten, you could no longer display suc…

i hate how americans always assume we are from there and understand everything they say

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#172

This reminds me of "Defund the Police", wherein supporters would try to convince others that the slogan did not literally mean what it says. Like AntiWork, It seems to have been started by those who genuinely wanted to abolish the police. But as time went on people joined who instead wanted to reform the police by dramatically cutting back what they were meant to respond to. But the slogan stayed, and was very mislea…

Actually defund the police means exactly what it says. The proposal is that police budgets get diverted to mental health and rehabilitation programs. The budget moved to mental health & rehab would be handled under a different agency than the police, which is something that is constantly argued over. Many opponents of defund the police agree with the overall budget reallocation, but they believe the budget should not…

A lot of the mini-tanks, assault weapons and SWAT gear is based on how the police are funded, not necessarily the amount of funding they have.

The amount of funding a police department has is determined at the beginning of the fiscal year and by how much was spent by the previous year, including any shortfalls or excesses in budgetary spending. City councils and Mayors/DA's are always looking to trim the police budget (believe it or not), so a lot of the time, the department will take any excess budget they have at the end of the year and spend it on military auction items (a whole other mess), in order to keep their budget and show that they've been able to stretch their budget as far as they can and get the most value for their dollar (I read a very good article about it like 2 years ago, or so and can't find it). But departments do this so they don't lose their future budgets, "just in case" they need to hire future officers, need more "real" equipment, etc. etc.

This has lead to the increase in militarization of the police and the militarization of the tactics of the police as military personnel are already familiar with the equipment. There has been no same said impetus to increase nonviolent intervention tactics on an ever increasingly divisive nation, who's "news" cycle and social networks actively work to stoke division and tension as it feeds interaction, which provides more eyes on advertisement (sorry, I went down a rabbithole in the end, there).

It would be better, well it would be a start, to have quarterly budget reviews and performance reviews tied to the needs of the community and training. But, we all know that isn't how politics works =(

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#173

I once discussed one of these eye rolling things with a real life friend of mine over the internet and I finally discovered what "abolish the police" really meant to him. He was knowingly being intellectually dishonest in order to move the goalposts. I've dated someone like that too and it only came out during an argument when I started writing down what she literally was saying and she finally said that her choices…

> This has made my life so much better. When I hear something someone says to me now I have an extra filter to run it through. It's no longer a choice just between the person being dishonest about the facts or being dishonest about the facts. They could mean it in a different way.

I'm with you, but to me, this is just operationalized dishonesty, assuming it's not a significant cognitive deficit relative to those who are capable of engaging with reality. The solution I landed on was to avoid assuming adult levels of cognition until someone proves they have it. It's much less common than you'd think, especially if you have a foot in many different social circles.

I will say that your gf example touches on something related but importantly different, in my experience. The women I've dated generally met the bar I'm describing as "adult level cognition" (naturally, as that feeds into our compatibility). But they universally, by their own description, react to even mild conflict by getting emotional and irrational.

I see this as a related phenomenon, but not the same. Loss of rationality in specific emotional circumstances is completely understandable, just as I can lose sensitivity to other's feelings in those moments. The solution we've landed on there is the same as yours: she can press a proverbial button that causes us to table the discussion until she calms down enough to think clearly. It takes a lot of trust on both sides to do this, but it's extremely effective.

To me, people subject to these moments of impairment are importantly different from the people who don't even seem to have a mental model of what intellectual honesty looks like. I often wonder if the latter are even capable of it, in any meaningful sense.

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then how can it be true that Doreen still represents the movement Represents the "movement", or represents the sub? They obviously still represented the sub - they were there when it got created, were a moderator, were picked by other moderators to be a representative of the subreddit in media events (which is conflated with the nebulous concept of "the movement") The issue here is that the "movement" may not be re…

You could ask the same about Fox - which is hardly ground zero for sanity itself. Does it represent a movement, or a TV channel? If it's a movement, by what process was it elected? Point being I doubt anyone at Fox was unhappy with how the Doreen interview turned out. Did they ask to interview anyone else from the sub? All this really does is highlight the difference between online opinionation - always easy - and ef…

> Point being I doubt anyone at Fox was unhappy with how the Doreen interview turned out.

Yeah, and what else could you expect from Jessie Waters? He's a smug propagandist, and people like Doreen Ford are perfect for his message. It's pretty stupid to cooperate with him unless you 1) agree with him, or 2) have good reason to believe you're up to effectively representing yourself to a hostile audience through a sleazy host, all of whom are more interested in mocking you than listening to you. And frankly, if they ask you for an interview, it that's probably good reason to believe #2 is false.

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#175

This reminds me of "Defund the Police", wherein supporters would try to convince others that the slogan did not literally mean what it says. Like AntiWork, It seems to have been started by those who genuinely wanted to abolish the police. But as time went on people joined who instead wanted to reform the police by dramatically cutting back what they were meant to respond to. But the slogan stayed, and was very mislea…

>This reminds me of "Defund the Police", wherein supporters would try to convince others that the slogan did not literally mean what it says.

What? It always meant lower police funding. If it meant abolish the police, the slogan would have been abolish the police

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#176
post #28

I think this article is trying to have its cake and eat it too. If the sub has been sanewashed and overrun by average left-of-center opinions and become wildly popular, then how can it be true that Doreen still represents the movement? The movement changed, as the article points out, and therefore Doreen was a terrible choice of representative. The fact that she predates the change is exactly the reason she is not re…

Where did the author say Doreen Ford was still representative of the current user base? It was pretty explicit that she represented its original form, not what it had become. The whole takeaway for me anyways was the shifting nature of group ideals and membership. One person or founder may represent the typical ideals of the original group, while later they may be wildly unrepresentative due to an influx of more “mod…

It’s in paragraph five, stated very very clearly.

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#177
post #48
post #5

It takes one bad experience to ruin a reputation. Guy went on Fox news (against the communities) wishes and made millions of people's first impression of r/AntiWork to be negative. In the modern world optics are EVERYTHING and that cannot be understated. Imho the first thing they need to change (which they have with their move to the new subreddit) is renaming it from r/AntiWork to r/WorkReform. Most of the sub (I'd…

I happened upon the r/AntiWork comments section from time to time before that Fox News segment and it always struck me as full of people who were making every excuse not to take responsibility for their own circumstances and who have a fantasy that low skill jobs should some how pay enough to be life long careers instead of viewing them as stepping stones to bigger and better things.

A lot of the most popular threads had less to do with lifelong careers and more about being treated with basic human decency by your employer (and telling them off when the labor market turned in worker's favor).

That said, to address your point head on, is it possible in the US for everyone to move on to "bigger and better" things? I don't think so which is why we have so many adults with families in min. wage or lowing paying jobs. There is no pool of well paying jobs for them all to move into, there is no magic solution where everyone can have their needs met just by pulling harder on their bootstraps.

So the question then becomes: should a person (or two people) working a full time job be able to provide for themselves and their family? I think the answer to that question is yes. You might disagree, but I don't think its fair to write them off as having a "fantasy".

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#178

I remember stumbling upon /r/antiwork a few years ago and being so happy I'd stumbled upon a thriving movement that so effectively criticized one of the core principles of society that everyone takes for granted - that everyone must effectively sell their labor to someone else (unless they're rich enough to opt out, or clever enough to create some business or invest their way out). To me anti-work is the recognition…

So what exactly is the alternative for selling your labour to someone else - and more importantly, one that is scalable to the general populace?

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you eat the cake, you can no longer possess it EDIT: Let me make it more clear, as English may not be your first language, if you're asking this question in truth (I sometimes miss sarcasm online, sorry). Cakes can be beautiful things which people (of a certain time period, especially) wanted to show off as a sign of their wealth, as refined sugar was expensive. Once it was eaten, you could no longer display suc…

i hate how americans always assume we are from there and understand everything they say

| i hate how americans always assume we are from there and understand everything they say |

It's a forum where everyone was typing in English, so my first assumption was that English was your fist language. I didn't say anything about American. And I tried to fix my mistake =/

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#180
post #175

This reminds me of "Defund the Police", wherein supporters would try to convince others that the slogan did not literally mean what it says. Like AntiWork, It seems to have been started by those who genuinely wanted to abolish the police. But as time went on people joined who instead wanted to reform the police by dramatically cutting back what they were meant to respond to. But the slogan stayed, and was very mislea…

>This reminds me of "Defund the Police", wherein supporters would try to convince others that the slogan did not literally mean what it says. What? It always meant lower police funding. If it meant abolish the police, the slogan would have been abolish the police

I think if you asked 100 people what it meant at its heyday maybe 70-80 would say "abolish the police." Connotation of words and all that. Just for humor's sake, google dictionary definition of defund is "prevent from continuing to receive funds" thus kill/abolish.
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