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Web Technologies Need an Owner

joehewitt.com

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Re: Web Technologies Need an Owner

#21

Post by dangoor »

joehewitt wrote: post #11
mapgrep wrote: post #10

"Let's face facts: the Web will never be the dominant platform." Hewitt's post hinges on that statement, presented without supporting evidence. But actually the Web is already dominant among the platforms Hewitt mentions (Web, Windows, iOS, and Android). Relevant stats: Web - 1.7 billion users as of July, given that 880 million people go to the single busiest website publicly measured by Google, and this site has a "…

Sorry if I didn't make it clear I meant the web will never be the dominant platform in the future once the current trends play out. I am aware of current market share proportions.

I'm not sure there will be a dominant platform again.

Re: Web Technologies Need an Owner

#22

Post by dangoor »

wf wrote: post #18
joehewitt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly the kind of arrogance I cited. You don't want to risk a bad owner so you'll let the whole thing die from neglect by committee. I would rather have Microsoft be the only browser vendor than have the web shrink dramatically.

I have very little real-world development experience so know these questions are relatively innocent: If there is one browser vendor do they not also control what is the cutting edge of technology? Wouldn't you be completely limited by them? Specifically, could you really imagine Microsoft setting the standards for the experience you have day to day on the web?

Who needs to imagine? That's how it was a decade ago.

Re: Web Technologies Need an Owner

#23

Post by philikon »

joehewitt wrote: post #12
guelo wrote: post #8

I am a fan of Joe Hewitt but this is crazy talk, especially coming from one of the heroes of the Mozilla revolution. It's as if he doesn't remember those dark days long ago when he was working on Firefox in what seemed like a lost cause, Microsoft was the defacto standard setter and single-handedly drove innovation in the web, it was awful. We must never go back to those days. I know Joe imagines some benevolent dict…

Exactly the kind of arrogance I cited. You don't want to risk a bad owner so you'll let the whole thing die from neglect by committee. I would rather have Microsoft be the only browser vendor than have the web shrink dramatically.

Because when Microsoft was the only browser vendor, the web evolved really quickly... OWAIT

Re: Web Technologies Need an Owner

#24

Post by wf »

dangoor wrote: post #22
wf wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have very little real-world development experience so know these questions are relatively innocent: If there is one browser vendor do they not also control what is the cutting edge of technology? Wouldn't you be completely limited by them? Specifically, could you really imagine Microsoft setting the standards for the experience you have day to day on the web?

Who needs to imagine? That's how it was a decade ago.

Well, I'm only 22 and we didn't even have a computer until I was around 12, so my experience with web standards is relatively naive. I <3 the internet as it is today, and I at least, do have to imagine how atrocious it must have been with Microsoft setting the standard.

Re: Web Technologies Need an Owner

#25

Post by nupark2 »

mapgrep wrote: post #10

"Let's face facts: the Web will never be the dominant platform." Hewitt's post hinges on that statement, presented without supporting evidence. But actually the Web is already dominant among the platforms Hewitt mentions (Web, Windows, iOS, and Android). Relevant stats: Web - 1.7 billion users as of July, given that 880 million people go to the single busiest website publicly measured by Google, and this site has a "…

You're conflating hyperlinked documents and applications. The web is clearly the dominant document platform, but is the web the dominant application platform?

The answer is in market success of the emerging mobile (and possibly desktop) application platforms, and the kinds of applications being produced there.

Re: Web Technologies Need an Owner

#26

Post by groby_b »

It's kind of amusing to read an article complaining about the walled garden of Facebook, and at the same time demanding central ownership for web technology.

It's not only a possibility that a centralized web will be bad, it's inevitable. A central owner has _no_ incentive for improvement. The only reason e.g. Cocoa keeps improving is because it needs to compete.

Re: Web Technologies Need an Owner

#27

Post by tambourine_man »

The Web doesn't have an owner, it has several. Competing against it other. That's why it is thriving.

It had no owner and it suffered when MS had 95% of the Web's market share, cause MS's platform is Windows, not the Web. Controlling it was MS's way of keeping Windows relevant.

Re: Web Technologies Need an Owner

#28

Post by nupark2 »

dangoor wrote: post #19

While there are a couple of minor bits I agree with, overall I think Joe's off on this one. The web has five organizations pushing really hard on it at this point (Mozilla [my employer], Google, Apple, Microsoft and Opera). The web almost had HP. We'll see what happens with WebOS. The one part of his article that I somewhat agree with is that under the guidance of several entities (and lots and lots of people) the we…

The one part of his article that I somewhat agree with is that under the guidance of several entities (and lots and lots of people) the web may not have quite the same coherence as, say, Cocoa. I'm not sure that will be a problem.

It's already a problem. In fact, it is the problem. The web application 'platform' is poor, incoherent, and its proponents highly resistant to the sweeping changes that would be necessary to compete with a native, proprietary platform like iOS.

The best chance the 'web' has for success is with projects like NaCL, but even that will only fix the execution environment -- we'll still need higher-level platform frameworks upon which applications can be built. Perhaps Google will supply usable application frameworks, as they've done (if poorly) with Android.

The browser makers (especially Mozilla) seem insistent on leaving us in the lurch, stuck with JavaScript, the DOM, and the painfully long lead times of standardization.

Re: Web Technologies Need an Owner

#29

Post by mahyarm »

freemarketteddy wrote: post #15

Truth hurts doesnt it! I think Joe is spot on.The web is already miles behind native mobile platforms.Personally I can vouch for iOS.The kind of stuff you can do on iOS now just in terms of UI is just impossibly hard to do with HTML5 or any other web platform. But then if you think about it.Its not surprising at all.Of course you will have a much more power on a native platform than a web platform which is built on t…

WebGL is picking up steam. Supported in Webkit and Firefox, with IE being the laggard (as usual). Once you have WebGL you have the building blocks needed for any kind of UI you want.

Re: Web Technologies Need an Owner

#30

Post by rbranson »

wf wrote: post #24
dangoor wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who needs to imagine? That's how it was a decade ago.

Well, I'm only 22 and we didn't even have a computer until I was around 12, so my experience with web standards is relatively naive. I <3 the internet as it is today, and I at least, do have to imagine how atrocious it must have been with Microsoft setting the standard.

dangoor is absolutely right. Microsoft probably put us behind 5-6 real years of progress on the web.
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