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Thank You, Valve

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Re: Thank You, Valve

#111

Post by [deleted] »

oblio wrote: post #99
busterarm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The serious cheats in competitive games these days don't rely on hacking the game anymore. They use a separate computer connected taking your HDMI out as an input and then controls your mouse and keyboard inputs. They use ML models and OpenCV. You watch the second computer's monitor and it draws huge boxes around things you shoot and it assists your aim. It doesn't even have to be a PC game, you can do the same with…

Do you have some links for this? It sounds super interesting.

[deleted]

Re: Thank You, Valve

#112

Post by robertlagrant »

danuker wrote: post #61
robertlagrant wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and we're not their friends. We'll go elsewhere as soon as we see a better deal. So what?

There is no elsewhere, when you consider network effects. The largest platform has the most to gain, when it makes use of social interaction.

> There is no elsewhere, when you consider network effects

There is an elsewhere. Playstation, XBoX, Nintendo, GoG, Epic, Apple Games, Android. Network effects aren't anything to do with a company being your friend. You aren't staying through friendship with the company; why is it non-silly to criticise them for not being your friend?

Re: Thank You, Valve

#113

Post by maccard »

Rooster61 wrote: post #67
mensetmanusman wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it should be an option for those that wants to play knowing there are probably fewer cheaters if they opt in. There will always be trade-offs in freedom when you try to implement rules to improve the freedom of those that want to play on a balanced playing field. This is true in society as well.

It's not freedom, its security. DRM is neither here nor there as long as its in user-space. It sucks for the consumer, but I understand why companies do it even if I don't like it. Kernel level drivers are a whole different can o' worms. A corporation could make my gaming rig into part of what amounts to a spyware botnet with me being none the wiser other than encrypted traffic coming OUT of my machine. Those drivers…

> A corporation could make my gaming rig into part of what amounts to a spyware botnet with me being none the wiser other than encrypted traffic coming OUT of my machine

For the average user they can do that with basic permissions anyway. I wouldn't notice a steady stream of 2-300 kbps of binary data uploading from my machine, for example. I'd chalk it down to shitty programming.

On any windows or Linux system, there is nothing stopping a binary from sniffing your clipboard, reading your .ssh directory, or just deleting your home folder/filling the files with garbage.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#114

Post by judge2020 »

Rooster61 wrote: post #45
Kuinox wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you to play a competitive multiplayer game filled with cheaters. You don't know if your opponent is good or cheating. It simply kill all the fun. If it won't work on PC, multiplayer gaming will simply moves to consoles. Great, now you are stuck with a closed standard, with a closed OS, where you can't run the programs you want.

I have. Many times. Yes, its a bit of a bummer. No, it still doesn't justify Tencent being able to see more about what is going on in my machine better than I can. Video games are a hobby for 99% of people out there, including myself. I can do without a plaything if it means not handing over the keys of the computer I built with my own hands to nefarious actors. That is FAR AND AWAY more important to me, and I'd hope…

It’s only “a bit of a bummer” when you experience it once every dozen games or less. If it occurs every other game, it starts to become a bad time investment to even start the game and try to get in a match.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#116

Post by judge2020 »

Rooster61 wrote: post #108
sbarre wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So here's a question: What is it about games that makes you particularly worried about this? Why is that an industry that is more susceptible to this kind of "nefarious" activity as you put it? Wouldn't it make more sense for business-related products to do this, since the odds of being on a computer that has actual useful information to steal would be much, much higher? Why would a company invest in this kind of tec…

> What is it about games that makes you particularly worried about this? Why is that an industry that is more susceptible to this kind of "nefarious" activity as you put it? Because it targets a younger, more ignorant user base that is much more likely than a company with security audits to blindly install. I certainly was at that age. > Wouldn't it make more sense for business-related products to do this, since the…

> If I suggested installing software with this type of driver at any job I've ever worked at with a security professional halfway worth their salt, I'd instantly be rejected

You forgot to tell them it’s a state-of-the-art antivirus solution.

> Show me a gamer that has seen the code of one of these drivers.

They don’t want to see the code, they just want to know it works and allows them to play games with a much lower chance of playing against a cheater. The ban waves that end up on Reddit every year[0] are good enough for them.

0: https://reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/52mj1m/untrust...

Re: Thank You, Valve

#117

Post by donatj »

nameisname wrote: post #40

This is great but I still dislike that valve has no customer support whatsoever. They also offer no refunds for errors in their system. I've been in situations where I purchase something off the market and it says "could not find an item at that price" and purchases it anyway without updating the screen. This resulted in me having multiple of the same item and they wouldn't even acknowledge the issue. I'm anti steam…

I’ve had a couple issues with steam purchases over the years, but support always corrected it right away and were helpful and friendly; even in the case where the issue was clearly my fault.

Way more than I can say of Sony whose support I would describe as adversarial in my several encounters. Most recently, after fifteen years of using PSN, hundreds of purchases, thousands of dollars, my account stopped working with ANY of my credit cards or PayPal - all orders fail. Their advice? Will not fix, buy gift cards from Amazon.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#118

Post by charcircuit »

Rooster61 wrote: post #28

I dig most of this article, and I do applaud the work Valve is doing for the Linux gaming ecosystem, but I draw a line at supporting kernel level anti-cheat drivers. That trend in gaming bothers me to no end, and I refuse to knowingly install a game that features one. The presence of 15 year old script kiddies using aimbots does NOT IN ANY WAY justify having kernel level control over my machine, Linux or otherwise. V…

>and all of the sudden a company essentially has free reign to do whatever they want with your machine under your nose

This is the case for user level anticheats too. 99% of what a malware wants to do it can do from userspace.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#119

Post by schmorptron »

danuker wrote: post #61
robertlagrant wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and we're not their friends. We'll go elsewhere as soon as we see a better deal. So what?

There is no elsewhere, when you consider network effects. The largest platform has the most to gain, when it makes use of social interaction.

Most of the social interaction in the games space happens on discord these days though, and has since about 2016. The only social network effect steam currently has is with game invites, since it's slightly more annoying to join a party of friends via the xbox version of sea of thieves than the steam version, for example.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#120

Post by matheusmoreira »

Rooster61 wrote: post #28

I dig most of this article, and I do applaud the work Valve is doing for the Linux gaming ecosystem, but I draw a line at supporting kernel level anti-cheat drivers. That trend in gaming bothers me to no end, and I refuse to knowingly install a game that features one. The presence of 15 year old script kiddies using aimbots does NOT IN ANY WAY justify having kernel level control over my machine, Linux or otherwise. V…

Completely agree. My computer is my computer and they need to stop trying to own it. I should be able to install and use the software I paid for without some unknown kernel module getting forced into my machine. Proprietary software is bad enough. Nobody cares that they "need" to do it, that's a line they can't cross and if it means their games have cheaters on them so be it.
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