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Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

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Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#51

Post by nradov »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #24
giantg2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I think it would be a good idea to have people teach/test the citizenship test in high school. The content should mostly be covered under civics classes anyways. It always amazing to me just how many people are completely clueless on government structure, mechanics, rule of law, etc.

I'm fine not having everyone take a citizenship test because the consequences are dire if you make people's citizenship dependent on the test. Statelessness is a cruel thing to put onto someone that can't seem to pass a test. At least the civics test I took was for immigration and I had multiple chances to pass - and mine was easier than the insane test folks take in the US and much more practical. I do agree that we…

The US citizenship written exam is extremely easy and doesn't require memorizing many dates. Accommodations are available for those with legitimate disabilities. Failing the exam typically won't leave the candidate stateless as they still retain their existing citizenship in another country.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#52

Post by mcv »

YEwSdObPQT wrote: post #43
Majestic121 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a EU citizen, all you need is a valid ID, which you are required to have on you even in your own country anyway.

The idea that you would be required to have ID in your own country is horrid. In the UK you are not required to have any identification on you.

It was quite controversial when it was introduced in Netherland too; it reminded a lot of people of the mandatory "Ausweis" from the war.

I certainly do not have ID on me all the time. Though I do try to remember to bring my driver's license when using the car, and my passport when leaving the country.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#53

Post by Freak_NL »

mcv wrote: post #29
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. The European Union exists. It's pretty cool. Go anywhere, no password required.

I think you still need to have a passport, it just won't be checked by anyone. Unless you get arrested, probably.

Or if you're not white, Muslim, Gypsy/Traveller, look poor, wear a hoodie with the hood up or a keffiyeh, or fall into any other checkbox no-one is supposed to use.

When travelling in Europe I am well aware of my privilege of being white, middle class, looking healthy, dressed neatly casual or in hiking gear and being two metres tall to boot (I stick out, but I'm invisible to border guards, customs officers, and police).

In international trains and near borders you can see people being asked to identify all the time if you take the time to notice it.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#55

Post by mmarq »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #16

From an ethical / fairness perspective, I think that the idea that someone should be prevented from visiting or settling in my country by virtue of their birth situation is utterly ridiculous, abhorrent, and awful. From a logistical perspective, I think that if my country accepted anyone from anywhere around the world, I think that the lovely little picket-fence green England I live in would turn into an absolute hel…

“Lovely little picket-fence green England”, assuming it’s even a thing, won’t be destroyed by foreigners, but it is destroying itself because it hasn’t been governed since the 2008 crisis. It’s probably the only place in Western Europe where salaries haven’t increased since 2008.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#56

Post by FpUser »

yosito wrote: post #14

As a nomad, and someone who's traveled to 40 countries and speaks 3 languages, I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. I think trying to make all passports equal is the wrong solution. Passports are issued by the authority of a country, and not all countries have equal authority on the world stage. UN issued passports might be a pos…

>"That's what I've done, and there are many opportunities to do so"

Kudos to you and I did the same in the 90s. But for some countries those "opportunities" do not exist in any practical way today. It is a sad world for many. When I think about it I get depressed.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#57

Post by _xnmw »

No. Cultures exist. Races exist. Unique human modes of being exist. One of the most devastating effects of the European Union was the absolute desolation and loss of beautiful cultures in Eastern Europe, such as Croatia and Romania. Entire regions became ghost towns, and major cities became standardized, soulless, faceless blocks.

Here's a before/after review from someone who travelled to Dubrovnik, Croatia before it became part of the EU.

> Our impression from that trip was mildly disappointing, because the distinctive culture of the country seemed to be fading into European Union standardization and blandness. The local high cuisine in particular was already long forgotten.

[1] https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2021/09/26/re-visiting-dubrovnik...

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#58

Post by throwaway22032 »

mmarq wrote: post #55
throwaway22032 wrote: post #16

From an ethical / fairness perspective, I think that the idea that someone should be prevented from visiting or settling in my country by virtue of their birth situation is utterly ridiculous, abhorrent, and awful. From a logistical perspective, I think that if my country accepted anyone from anywhere around the world, I think that the lovely little picket-fence green England I live in would turn into an absolute hel…

“Lovely little picket-fence green England”, assuming it’s even a thing, won’t be destroyed by foreigners, but it is destroying itself because it hasn’t been governed since the 2008 crisis. It’s probably the only place in Western Europe where salaries haven’t increased since 2008.

> even faster than it already is.

No arguments here!

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#59

Post by Freak_NL »

rndgermandude wrote: post #50
YEwSdObPQT wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that you would be required to have ID in your own country is horrid. In the UK you are not required to have any identification on you.

Why is it horrid? I am genuinely asking. As I understand it, you still need to identify yourself in countries without such an id, like the US or UK, for a lot of reasons, like when opening bank accounts, interacting with the state, etc. But without a national id card, this can become complicated, and these countries often use a lot of defacto ids "replacements" like birth certificates, driver's licenses and so on, wh…

It means legally speaking you can't even go for a run or to a supermarket without one.

Of course, it turns out you absolutely can if you're not 'suspicious'. A colleague of mine is short, bald, and wears a keffiyeh. He gets stopped for identity checks from time to time. I am never stopped (obviously, this does give away my skin colour and the fact that I have an unassuming or conformist appearance).

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#60

Post by FpUser »

sharikous wrote: post #28

I see more and more people believing in a future of big tech players being as authoritative as countries (I am not sure about that but I am hearing that a lot) Imagine passports issued by Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc.. to their workers or to workers of smaller companies using their cloud services. The only thing missing is armies

>"Imagine passports issued by Amazon, Google, Microsoft"

Shudder

You load 16 tons, what do you get?

Another day older and deeper in debt

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