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Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

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Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#211

Post by [deleted] »

zackmorris wrote: post #123
jwuphysics wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences and it sounds like you learned a lot from firsthand knowledge. But, respectfully asking, what does inflammatory foods or poor eating habits have to do with GMO foods?

Two main things: 1. Genetically modified (GMO) foods can cause non-food compounds to get synthesized in the food that our bodies have never seen before, which can trigger autoimmune issues. I consider this the lower risk. 2. GMO foods are designed specifically to allow more use of pesticides and herbicides. These get incorporated into the food and can stay around after washing, especially in processed food. Pesticide…

[deleted]

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#212

Post by acconrad »

zackmorris wrote: post #99

Just another data point, but my journey through digestive issues and recovery was kicked off by the worst depression and burnout I ever experienced, which started in 2019 and lasted 3 years. My best guess for what happened is that work stress, excessive celebration and coping with the cognitive dissonance of the pre-COVID era and subsequent pandemic, combined with overtraining and the misuse of protein shakes in plac…

You had me until you said GMOs and inflammation.

GMOs are not allergenic[1].

Inflammation is a necessary function of the human body. There are no anti-inflammatory diets[2]. Short term inflammation has no bearing on health markers[3].

Just focus on a diet rich in whole foods, mostly plants that you can stick to over the long run.

[1] https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/can-gmos-cause-gastrointest... [2] https://youtu.be/JKcfubZh-fc [3] https://youtu.be/CPB0jqo76Hg

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#213

Post by vbezhenar »

Gatsky wrote: post #124

There was a lot of work on microbiome and cancer immunotherapy... the latest study in the field published in the most prestigious journal there is [1] seemed to show that fibre intake was more important than any specific microbe. In fact they found that eating more fibre and taking probiotics resulted in worse outcomes than just eating more fibre alone. This was recapitulated in a mouse model: > Together, these data…

What about abuse of antibiotics? They are known to kill gut microbes.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#214

Post by wutbrodo »

zabzonk wrote: post #115
wutbrodo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty obvious from reading the article in its entirety that the claim is that the inflammation is affecting mood directly, not via nasty and humiliating gastro symptoms.

How would you differentate between the two?

The same way you support any causal claim, by controlling for confounders. What gives you so much confidence that a suboptimal microbiome is tautologically accompanied by "nasty and humiliating" IBS symptoms, to the degree that would cause depression? Are you under the impression that everyone with a measurably poor microbiome automatically has nasty and humiliating IBS symptoms?

You can assume that everyone involved in performing, analyzing, and reporting the study is incompetent, but at that point why not just assume that the entire article is inaccurate and that one can never understand anything about the world?

I'm the last person to slavishly believe scientific authorities' interpretation of evidence when it's clearly done poorly (see: all of Covid). But it's bizarre to claim that researchers wouldn't have thought to rule out the most basic alternate hypotheses, especially when they have the data to do so.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#215

Post by doublepg23 »

nemo44x wrote: post #167
Gatsky wrote: post #124

There was a lot of work on microbiome and cancer immunotherapy... the latest study in the field published in the most prestigious journal there is [1] seemed to show that fibre intake was more important than any specific microbe. In fact they found that eating more fibre and taking probiotics resulted in worse outcomes than just eating more fibre alone. This was recapitulated in a mouse model: > Together, these data…

Fiber is so incredibly important and much of our food in the West doesn’t have much of it. We see colon cancers and diverticulitis in people in their 30’s and even late 20’s nowadays. This wasn’t the case years ago and it’s not the case in Asian or African countries. But we don’t think it’s genetic because we see diverticulitis in people from these parts of the world 10 years after moving to the West. It’s thought th…

I've been tracking my food the past couple months and it's pretty eye opening how much fiber I've been lacking. Now taking supplements, but is there a food you'd recommend in particular?

It's silly, especially to admit on this forum, but I found the Hidrate water bottle that tracks your water consumption actually increased my water intake loads as well.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#216

Post by moistly »

more_corn wrote: post #162
PeterisP wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is quite the opposite - GMO insect-resistant plants enable using much less pesticides (the savings from reduced frequency and quantity of pesticides being the economic reason for choosing such crops) than non-modified equivalents.

GMO roundup resistance allows us to use a bunch of herbicide without killing the food crop. This seems to indicate that we’d be using a lot more roundup on those crops than otherwise.

Glyphosate is also used to desiccate grain crops. I rather doubt the residue is removed before it reaches one’s table.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_desiccation

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#217

Post by MathCodeLove »

doublepg23 wrote: post #215
nemo44x wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiber is so incredibly important and much of our food in the West doesn’t have much of it. We see colon cancers and diverticulitis in people in their 30’s and even late 20’s nowadays. This wasn’t the case years ago and it’s not the case in Asian or African countries. But we don’t think it’s genetic because we see diverticulitis in people from these parts of the world 10 years after moving to the West. It’s thought th…

I've been tracking my food the past couple months and it's pretty eye opening how much fiber I've been lacking. Now taking supplements, but is there a food you'd recommend in particular? It's silly, especially to admit on this forum, but I found the Hidrate water bottle that tracks your water consumption actually increased my water intake loads as well.

Personally I like to eat sliced green bell pepper, carrots, celery, and tomatoes with lite ranch as both a snack and often breakfast/"desert". Not entirely sure exactly how much fiber you get from any of those foods, but pretty sure the green bell pepper and celery are pretty high in it.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#218

Post by mandmandam »

gbjw wrote: post #165

Interesting to note that the link between emotions and the 'gut' are all over the place in English: 'trust your gut' 'I have a gut feeling' 'I hate his guts' 'my gut reaction'.

I would be very surprised if body/emotion metaphors weren't endemic in language.

I don't speak too many languages, but I 've noticed that grokking English expressions isn't too hard for most tourists. "Chip on the shoulder", head in the game (or the clouds), foot in the mouth, butterflies in the stomach, etc; all seem fairly understandable to tourists who hear the expression.

Some have a very literal origin - "scared shitless", for example - that I would look for first.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#219

Post by Gatsky »

vbezhenar wrote: post #213
Gatsky wrote: post #124

There was a lot of work on microbiome and cancer immunotherapy... the latest study in the field published in the most prestigious journal there is [1] seemed to show that fibre intake was more important than any specific microbe. In fact they found that eating more fibre and taking probiotics resulted in worse outcomes than just eating more fibre alone. This was recapitulated in a mouse model: > Together, these data…

What about abuse of antibiotics? They are known to kill gut microbes.

There are specific situations where probiotics can be helpful - antibiotic induced diarrhoea for example, prevention of traveller's diarrhoea is another.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#220

Post by more_corn »

nemo44x wrote: post #167
Gatsky wrote: post #124

There was a lot of work on microbiome and cancer immunotherapy... the latest study in the field published in the most prestigious journal there is [1] seemed to show that fibre intake was more important than any specific microbe. In fact they found that eating more fibre and taking probiotics resulted in worse outcomes than just eating more fibre alone. This was recapitulated in a mouse model: > Together, these data…

Fiber is so incredibly important and much of our food in the West doesn’t have much of it. We see colon cancers and diverticulitis in people in their 30’s and even late 20’s nowadays. This wasn’t the case years ago and it’s not the case in Asian or African countries. But we don’t think it’s genetic because we see diverticulitis in people from these parts of the world 10 years after moving to the West. It’s thought th…

I’ve recently learned I have sky-high cholesterol. Doctor mentioned that eating fiber can sequester cholesterol. So along with dietary changes and exercise he recommended Psyllium husk in water. Apparently this is a great way to increase fiber intake. I bet a lot of people could improve intestinal health by increasing their fiber. Apparently we’re now learning that improving intestinal health can have effects on the mind!
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