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J&J tried to get federal judge to block publication of Reuters story

reuters.com

221–230 of 239 posts

Re: J&J tried to get federal judge to block publication of Reuters story

#221
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many NDAs include language preventing just what you said, and allowing one party to seek an injunction from a judge preventing disclosure and a breach. Violating a judges injunction will usually result in jail time, not just a fine.

The injunction is for violating the criminal penalty of trade secret theft. That injunction can be applied whether or not you signed an NDA. (It's a bit nonsense that we as a country let corps get laws passed to make "trade secret theft" criminal, but it is what it is).

You're discussing a different law. You can, and many people do (with or without realizing it), sign contracts that allow a judge to issue an injunction if the company even suspects you will violate the NDA. You then can go to jail if you violate the injunction.

You could write a similar contract allowing an injunction to prevent anything else.

Re: J&J tried to get federal judge to block publication of Reuters story

#222
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) I am not saying it is proof or a valid argument. I am saying we should not assume the poster is lying just because they’re uncomfortable providing details about something that is likely personal or legal in nature. 2) That there are HN commenters who don’t follow the guidelines doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. 3) I did not “conveniently” leave out that sentence, which implies malice on my part. I left it out because…

> I left it out because I deemed it irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. The scope of that sentence assigned to it by the only other sentence in that paragraph was indeed "irrelevant" to your claim "assume good faith" is a general policy for HN comments. It was beyond disingenuous, and you're still being disingenuous; you're now shifting the goalposts. > As before: please try to assume good faith. You select…

No, I didn’t. If you read it even with that sentence attached it still applies, as I clarified in my followup comment to you. It just wasn’t needed for that particular reading, and your reading was not the strongest plausible interpretation. The goal posts have remained unchanged.

Furthermore, I read through some of your other comments and might add: I haven’t found one in which you’ve been anything but negative. Please consider reading through your comments and adjusting your general demeanor on this forum; I’d argue there’s a reason every third or fourth comment of yours gets downvoted.

That said, I think we’re done here. Enjoy the rest of your night; or day, wherever you are. :)

Re: J&J tried to get federal judge to block publication of Reuters story

#223
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you believe there is any form of free expression in the UK? I'm genuinely asking because looking on from the outside it is clear to me that nowhere in Europe is there anything even approaching freedom of expression and conscience.

You must be trolling. European countries are considered the most free in the world. https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores?sort...

Not sure how useful that report is. Look at how they score..

Was the current head of government or other chief national authority elected through free and fair elections?

The US 3/4

Do laws, policies, and practices guarantee equal treatment of various segments of the population?

Canada 3/4 - because Indigenous women went missing?

Are there free and independent media?

US 3/4 Canada 4/4 Switzerland 4/4

- Shouldn't these be reversed?

Seems like randomly rating to get some predetermined result. What do many of these things have to do with press freedoms?

Re: J&J tried to get federal judge to block publication of Reuters story

#224
post #178
post #126

It's interesting how effectively the J&J PR department keeps steering these lawsuits back to talc that is contaminated with asbestos, even though they're well aware that uncontaminated talc also causes cancer. A while back, I read that J&J has access to special uncontaminated talc mines.

> uncontaminated talc also causes cancer. Can you please point to the claim, data, evidence for this? :o

American cancer society:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-ca...

Re: J&J tried to get federal judge to block publication of Reuters story

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't think it was ever illegal to say things that were true, justified, and in the public interest to have spoken. Could you give some examples (or point me at the relevant laws) please?

There really arent any. Hate speech isn't "true" regardless of your basement phrenologists Roganism's that this race or that ethnicity is "inferior" to a white person due to skull or brain size. Or doctored studies that purposely dont take poverty and other things into account. The other category is libel/slander which is properly protected in the UK where a real burden of proof is put on the person making the claim,…

In the UK the cops will knock on your door if you misgender someone on Twitter.

Re: J&J tried to get federal judge to block publication of Reuters story

#226
post #62

Pharma companies get away with way too much. No other industry could you sell products that only slightly work as advertised for some people, some of the time. But charge everyone same, with no refunds when the product doesn't work. And you can't even sue if it causes you harm. The new development to use the power of the courts and government to mandate their use should give you pause. The absolute risk reduction (AR…

Only a certain percent of people enjoy themselves on rollercoasters. Therefore, charging everyone for entry is a scam. > And you can't even sue if it causes you harm. There are 38,200 pending lawsuits against J&J solely for talc powder claims. A single one of them was $2.5 billion.

When roller-coasters are mandated by governments and employers then your comparison will make sense.

Re: J&J tried to get federal judge to block publication of Reuters story

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because civil suits that find them guilty could make them go out of business That's hyperbole. Even if they were fined their market cap, the company would survive.

> That's hyperbole. Even if they were fined their market cap, the company would survive. Really? Market capitalization is, loosely, asset valuation plus X years of projected future earnings. If JNJ was fined their market cap of $451B, it would take about 19.6 years of earnings to pay, assuming no declines due to reputational damage from the judgement. (2021 earnings $23B, BTW up almost 40% from 2020!). So call it 20…

> > That's hyperbole. Even if they were fined their market cap, the company would survive.

> Really?

Yes. Even in this unlikely scenario, the company would easily continue on. The idea that this case could put them out of business is ridiculous and I stand by it.

> it would take about 19.6 years of earnings to pay,

You're thinking about it the wrong way...like most people who think that you can stick it to megacorporations. Think about how it pays out over the next 100 years? Because that's much more likely and efficient. While you might think it depends on the terms, it's going to be financed so there's not much to be done to liquidate them. Then think about how many decades before it can lobby (cough legislate) some additional financial tools?

> Market capitalization is, loosely, asset valuation plus X years of projected future earnings.

Irrelevant, at best. Large companies that should fold according to this kind of rough thinking don't fold on a consistent basis. Consider that you're oversimplified weasel calculation doesn't mean what you think it does.

Good luck with whatever.

Re: J&J tried to get federal judge to block publication of Reuters story

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, only one violates the generally accepted freedoms of the press: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure

Legally they are the same action, and they obviously violate the same laws. Specifically, they violate the prohibition on restricting someone's freedom to engage in the mass-production of speech, which is known as "freedom of the press". What are you trying to say with the public figure link?

There’s a very different case history for “freedom of the press” than “freedom of speech.” Legally, they’re different.

“Freedom of the press” has focused on the need for an informed public and institutional autonomy of the press. It is a public, not private, right.

The freedom of the press also has a commercial element. It’s controversial to say “corporations have freedom of speech.” It uncontroversial and obvious that corporations have freedom of the press.

“Freedom of speech” has focused on individual speakers. There’s a public element, but private speech is still incredibly important.

Re: J&J tried to get federal judge to block publication of Reuters story

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally they are the same action, and they obviously violate the same laws. Specifically, they violate the prohibition on restricting someone's freedom to engage in the mass-production of speech, which is known as "freedom of the press". What are you trying to say with the public figure link?

There’s a very different case history for “freedom of the press” than “freedom of speech.” Legally, they’re different. “Freedom of the press” has focused on the need for an informed public and institutional autonomy of the press. It is a public, not private, right. The freedom of the press also has a commercial element. It’s controversial to say “corporations have freedom of speech.” It uncontroversial and obvious th…

> There’s a very different case history for “freedom of the press” than “freedom of speech.” Legally, they’re different.

That is true.

> “Freedom of the press” has focused on the need for an informed public and institutional autonomy of the press. It is a public, not private, right.

But that's wildly wrong.

https://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/press.pdf

> Blackstone, for instance, wrote in 1769 that “[e]very freeman has an undoubted right to lay what sentiments he pleases before the public: to forbid this, is to destroy the freedom of the press.” Jean-Louis de Lolme, an author widely cited by 1780s American writers, likewise wrote in his chapter on “Liberty of the Press” that “[e]very subject in England has not only a right to present petitions, to the King, or the Houses of Parliament; but he has a right also to lay his complaints and observations before the Public, by the means of an open press.”

> State supreme courts in 1788 and 1791 similarly described the liberty of the press as “permitting every man to publish his opinions,” and as meaning that “the citizen has a right to publish his sentiments upon all political, as well as moral and literary subjects.”

> Several early state constitutions echoed this as well, providing that “[e]very citizen may freely speak, write and print on any subject, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty.”

The difference between freedom of speech and freedom of the press is that the press involves mass production, making it easy to communicate a message to large numbers of people at low cost. When people rephrase "freedom of speech" and "freedom of the press" as "the freedom to speak, write, and print on any subject", the freedoms to speak and write come from the freedom of speech, and the freedom to print (or publish) comes from the freedom of the press.

Re: J&J tried to get federal judge to block publication of Reuters story

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm trying to understand how this is allowed? It seems like it's in incredibly bad faith. Can anyone explain how this can happen? Taking this to it's extreme, can't you just buy some property so that you owe 1 million dollars, put that debt into it's own company and then say "sorry, that company is bankrupt, I can't pay". Is that not what's happening here? I feel like I must be missing something.

IANAL, but IIRC from some reading on this a while back (I could totally be wrong) you have to group the assets that the debt is connected to in the new entity specifically to prevent this. You also can't liquidate the asset connected to the debt and then spin off the new entity while keeping the money from the liquidation. So I think the way that these rules play out WRT J&J would be that they have to include all ass…

This makes sense to me now. Thanks for the clarification!
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