Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Should an experienced engineer join a startup?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 75 posts

Re: Ask HN: Should an experienced engineer join a startup?

#11

Post by lostdog »

You just can't justify joining a startup between series A and when they switch to RSUs. The equity amounts are usually small enough to be worthless, and if they are big they become impossible to exercise. Angel investing a smaller amount is almost always a better tradeoff.

In my last search, the series D+ and public offers were good, and the startup offers were just laughable. I couldn't justify going to any of them just to make a bunch of other people rich.

My friends in similar situations take exactly the options you described. Some become founders (getting 30-40% of a company), some are angel investing (and sometimes joining a company they've invested in "for fun"), some just can't handle the bureaucracy beyond 100 people and join startups, and the vast majority are at larger public companies or startups that are nearly there.

I really believe there's an imbalance that's due for a correction, because skilled and experienced people mostly avoid startups right now. Early valuations may need to increase, employee equity pools will need to increase, equity terms must become less confiscatory, team sizes should shrink, and timelines to exiting must decrease. Will it happen? I'm not sure. It depends on whether startups can continue to coast on the pool of less-skilled engineers joining the true believers.

Re: Ask HN: Should an experienced engineer join a startup?

#12

Post by tempforquestion »

mianos wrote: post #8

If you want to give up your $1M salary (seriously WTF) and you want to have much more control over a technology stack, sure. I halved my salary and worked in startups for quite a few years, some things were fantastic. For example, bootstrapping a bank from scratch. I left all that chaos for an established large firm and it totally sucked the life out of me. The chances of getting a million dollar a year income, in st…

I'm not trying to make $1M at a startup, but it does bother me when a startup spins their compensation to be what it is because the equity will become so valuable in the future.

Re: Ask HN: Should an experienced engineer join a startup?

#13

Post by tempforquestion »

doopy1 wrote: post #7

Why are you using very optimistic scenarios instead of realistic ones? Do you know that most startups don't see an exit at all let alone one that can be measured in the hundreds of millions?

Excellent question! I want to give the benefit of the doubt to the value of equity and I'm assuming I would join a company that I truly believe.

If you account the true risk, for sure is not worth it.

Re: Ask HN: Should an experienced engineer join a startup?

#14

Post by Graffur »

> I make around $0.9M-$1.2M per year today

Wow, can I ask how you make that much per year?

I am not in that position but to me it sounds like you should not go with the startup. The chance of failure is very high

EDIT: One thing I thought you go do is invest in startups. That way you're into the startup world with less risk.

Re: Ask HN: Should an experienced engineer join a startup?

#15

Post by shuckles »

The strongest case for startup equity as compensation is made by Ben Kuhn, in my opinion, and it amounts to: you can diversify your equity exposure in more companies than you could as an angel because (i) the best companies will want to hire you and (ii) you can quit your company as soon as it appears to not be a rocketship, something you'll have insider knowledge of. https://www.benkuhn.net/optopt/

Re: Ask HN: Should an experienced engineer join a startup?

#16

Post by tempforquestion »

lostdog wrote: post #11

You just can't justify joining a startup between series A and when they switch to RSUs. The equity amounts are usually small enough to be worthless, and if they are big they become impossible to exercise. Angel investing a smaller amount is almost always a better tradeoff. In my last search, the series D+ and public offers were good, and the startup offers were just laughable. I couldn't justify going to any of them…

> I couldn't justify going to any of them just to make a bunch of other people rich.

That is a nice way to put how I feel about my situation.

Re: Ask HN: Should an experienced engineer join a startup?

#18

Post by United857 »

Graffur wrote: post #14

> I make around $0.9M-$1.2M per year today Wow, can I ask how you make that much per year? I am not in that position but to me it sounds like you should not go with the startup. The chance of failure is very high EDIT: One thing I thought you go do is invest in startups. That way you're into the startup world with less risk.

Senior staff/E7 level at FAANG will get you that comp, especially with stock appreciation if you've been there for a while.

Re: Ask HN: Should an experienced engineer join a startup?

#19

Post by czhiddy »

mianos wrote: post #8

If you want to give up your $1M salary (seriously WTF) and you want to have much more control over a technology stack, sure. I halved my salary and worked in startups for quite a few years, some things were fantastic. For example, bootstrapping a bank from scratch. I left all that chaos for an established large firm and it totally sucked the life out of me. The chances of getting a million dollar a year income, in st…

$1M in W2 earnings isn't that unusual for senior engineers at companies that have seen significant stock growth. Suppose you had a $200k salary, $500k RSUs over four years, $50k/year bonus offer mid-2017. The last batch of stock vesting in 2021 would have pushed total stock adjusted compensation close to the 7 figure mark.

NVDA has seen over +500% stock growth during that time. Apple has gone up close to 400%, GOOG over +200%.

What's interesting is that even if we ignore the recent dip, FB has only gone up +150% since mid-2017. If you held through the recent dip, that falls to something around +60% over four years.

Post reply on HN