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Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

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Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#151

Post by wfme »

PeterisP wrote: post #139
zackmorris wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two main things: 1. Genetically modified (GMO) foods can cause non-food compounds to get synthesized in the food that our bodies have never seen before, which can trigger autoimmune issues. I consider this the lower risk. 2. GMO foods are designed specifically to allow more use of pesticides and herbicides. These get incorporated into the food and can stay around after washing, especially in processed food. Pesticide…

My impression is quite the opposite - GMO insect-resistant plants enable using much less pesticides (the savings from reduced frequency and quantity of pesticides being the economic reason for choosing such crops) than non-modified equivalents.

This article [0] points towards the reality being somewhere in the middle - more herbicides but less insecticides.

> GMOs have been changing the way that pesticides are used in agriculture. Herbicide-tolerant genetically modified (GM) crops have led to an increase in herbicide usage while insecticide-producing GM crops have led to a decrease in insecticides.

[0] https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2015/gmos-and-pesticides/

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#152

Post by csnover »

ipaddr wrote: post #134
freshpots wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a good argument at all. What 'modification' do you think is a risk and how would it cause the concerns your worried about?

To put the question back what benefit does it provide aside from cost?

As just one example, if you live in an area where it is difficult to get dietary Vitamin A, you might enjoy the benefits of not going blind due to Vitamin A deficiency by eating Golden Rice[0].

Have you ever eaten a SweeTango apple? It is one of dozens of varieties that have been created in the last hundred years using genetic engineering via cross breeding[1]. Do you know why commercial tomatoes are so bland? Genetic engineering via selective breeding[2].

The fact of the matter is that all of the crops and livestock that we cultivate today are genetically engineered. The main distinction now is that we are technologically advanced enough to introduce beneficial modifications deliberately, rather than relying on random mutations and gene recombinations that occur in nature at random over hundreds or thousands of generations.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice

[1] https://mnhardy.umn.edu/varieties/fruit/apples/all-apple-var...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato#Modern_commercial_varie...

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#153

Post by dekken_ »

umeshunni wrote: post #23
MikeDelta wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Kimchi if you're into Korean food.

Do you have an easy to make recipe?

https://www.thekitchn.com/how-to-make-easy-kimchi-at-home-18...

good base to build from, it didn't use to be so spammy tho

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#154

Post by bell-cot »

> ... When it came to depression, two bacteria [...], Morganella and Kiebdiella, seemed to play a causal role, [...] Morganella has already been implicated in depression. As far back as 2008 ...

This situation looks relatively simple to me - start searching for bactiophages which are specific to Morganella. Briefly test those in animals, then try them on a few volunteers who both are suffering from profound depression and seem to have very high Morganella levels in their guts. (While giving 'em fecal transplants from depression-free relatives and monitoring them intensively and such.)

If that shows promise, then you might really have something (minus a whole lot more testing & refinement & such). If not...maybe back to the drawing board.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#155

Post by rkalla »

zackmorris wrote: post #99

Just another data point, but my journey through digestive issues and recovery was kicked off by the worst depression and burnout I ever experienced, which started in 2019 and lasted 3 years. My best guess for what happened is that work stress, excessive celebration and coping with the cognitive dissonance of the pre-COVID era and subsequent pandemic, combined with overtraining and the misuse of protein shakes in plac…

This was a _fascinating_ read and I thank you for writing that all up - I'm in your "3 year" dip and in the past made attempts at tackling the gut biome issue with cycling probiotics, fresh vegetable fibers, organic/local yogurts, staying away from fake sugars and other dietary things that blow out the biome and even after a few weeks of doing this I never felt any better - would shrug my shoulders and go back to not really caring.

Was there 1 inflammatory food item that is like kryptonite to you now? Fake sugars? Wheats?

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#156

Post by EL_Loco »

throw_me_up wrote: post #43
maybeOneDay wrote: post #8

Tangential: Is there any evidence that pro biotic foods or supplements can increase gut health? Given the evident importance of gut health, I wonder whether it's worth using something like this, to grab a random example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Restored-Bio-Cultures/dp/B082SZXBF2...

Eat fiber. Meet the recommended amount and eat a diverse set of fiber which will feed different microbes in the gut. It will take some time for the gut to adjust to the new levels though. Expect gas, cramping, etc for a few days.

Do you advise just fiber from natural foods, or do you take a fiber supplement (like those that come in powder form)? I guess the supplement route won't give me the diverse fiber types you mention, am I right?

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#157

Post by hutzlibu »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #135
sdze wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also why would GMO be bad? The criticism comes mostly from people that also believe in osteopathic / homeopathic medicine in my social circle. I find it a terrific chance for humanity to engineer plants in such a way that they are more robust against disease and bad weather (with CRISPR/CAS and such methods).

Anti - GMO crowd is definetly very similar to anti vaxxers and other science deniers spreading dangerous propaganda while eating oranges and bananas.

Are you implying oranges and bananas were made with modern GMO methods?

I agree that the anti gmo/vaxx etc. crowd is quite irrational in many regards, but I can see a difference between traditional breeding plants - and directly editing DNA.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#158

Post by baxtr »

zackmorris wrote: post #99

Just another data point, but my journey through digestive issues and recovery was kicked off by the worst depression and burnout I ever experienced, which started in 2019 and lasted 3 years. My best guess for what happened is that work stress, excessive celebration and coping with the cognitive dissonance of the pre-COVID era and subsequent pandemic, combined with overtraining and the misuse of protein shakes in plac…

So, what are you actually eating now that has helped?

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#159

Post by baxtr »

Gatsky wrote: post #124

There was a lot of work on microbiome and cancer immunotherapy... the latest study in the field published in the most prestigious journal there is [1] seemed to show that fibre intake was more important than any specific microbe. In fact they found that eating more fibre and taking probiotics resulted in worse outcomes than just eating more fibre alone. This was recapitulated in a mouse model: > Together, these data…

Why only more vegetables? Isn’t fiber also in some other food?

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#160

Post by kibwen »

belltaco wrote: post #120

What if depression was causing the gut microbe changes? Like it was recently found with autism and gut changes. https://cosmosmagazine.com/health/body-and-mind/autism-gut-m...

From the beginning of the article:

"Whether those microbial deficits actually help cause the disorders is unclear, [...]"

For the time being it appears to be careful in only suggesting correlation, not causation.

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