The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever • Hacker News Board

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#411

Post by zdragnar » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 3:22 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #278

zdragnar wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we all know Excepting the approval of end to end encryption and residential zoning, pretty much every problem thread on HN is littered with comments about how we need more regulation and laws to solve X or Y or Z. Wanting the "good guys" to have more power is pretty much the default response on here nowadays. I remember earlier- including before I had signed up for an account- when HN was much more libertarian,…

So you're saying that HN has matured? :-)

There is certainly a whole lot less of "we could build an app to solve it!" But there is also more naivete in other ways. I think this is more broadly reflected in society as a whole.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#412

Post by nexuist » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #144

loteck wrote: post #24

The 3 Techdirt links in the article are especially helpful for catching up. EARN IT is another skirmish in the 30+ year old Crypto Wars. For those who care about defending privacy and encryption, exhaustion is not an option. Power-hungry governments must be viewed similarly to an APT in this context. They are following their very nature, and they will never stop inventing new approaches. There is no other option exce…

While I agree with you, I think the last 5 years have shown that exhaustion wins. It is just a matter of time. People won't stay vigilant. They just want to provide a life for their family. Life is hard enough without having to stop clueless and bribed politicians from ending freedom on a weekly basis.

Cynicism is obedience. We can and should beat this.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#413

Post by wutbrodo » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #389

wutbrodo wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everybody thinks they're incorruptible It chafes me a little to see this so often phrased as something "everybody" thinks. There are enough people who feel otherwise in my social circles that it's pretty easy for me to consider this as a shockingly dumb assumption for a person to hold. Though I do acknowledge that you're probably close to right from a purely numerical perspective.

I agree.

Just to be clear, "shockingly dumb" is in reference to the incorruptibility belief, not to your claim that it's "everyone".

Though from your response, I think you probably understood what I meant despite the ambiguous phrasing.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#414

Post by lebuffon » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 3:56 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #379

radicalbyte wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has 900k covid deaths from 74M cases. The real number of cases are likely to be double that, but it's still a very high rate - from the richest country in the world.

If the real number of cases is double that, then that would be a death rate of ... about 0.6%. And not everyone catches the disease in one pandemic wave, so the total population death rate in the US isn't going to reach that. And the idea that the US is going to roll over and shrug when their hospital system falls apart is nonsensical. It is one of those sounds-scary-not-likely scenarios that doesn't play out at scal…

As long as their is oxygen support and health care people show up for work you are correct. In Mexico and other countries with less access to modern health care the death rate seems to be an order of magnitude higher. (if the CDC data is valid)

This was just a trainer pandemic. :-) Imagine one where the children and young people are dying instead of seniors.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#415

Post by Zak » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

charcircuit wrote: post #120

randomhodler84 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No we shouldn’t. Never. Get that idea out of your head. It can never be secure or safe. This path leads to bodies hanging from the town square.

So you want encryption so criminals who would have otherwise been hung to be able to evade the law? It is pretty clear to me how a government may not approve of encryption for this usage.

A cryptographically secure messaging system is either secure for terrorists and child molesters, or it isn't secure for anyone.

Like most reasonable people, I want governments to try to prevent such crimes and to punish people who commit them. I do not, however wish to grant governments unlimited powers with which to pursue those goals. In particular, there are some bright lines which should never be crossed. Those include torture, punishment without a reasonable attempt at a fair trial, and outlawing tools for secure communication.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#416

Post by pksebben » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

hanniabu wrote: post #259

cossatot wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FOX and CNN are constantly accused of spreading misinformation by huge swaths of the populace (but not necessarily the same swath for both networks).

Any examples of CNN misinformation? Not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just not aware of it. Meanwhile FOX misinformation is pretty well known.

https://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/09/02/iraq.weapons/inde...

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#417

Post by sandworm101 » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 4:21 PM UTC

mrandish wrote: post #10

While this bill is strongly opposed by the Internet Society, ACLU, CDT, and EFF, the critiques I've read don't get much into the real "why" behind this legislation continuing to be pushed so forcefully. The pretext is, of course, "protect the children" and more generally law-and-order with a bonus side-helping of "stop those awful social media giants." While these justifications are (hopefully) obvious misdirection t…

>> by making it legally risky for large social media and platform companies to offer end-to-end encryption

I'm converted. I now totally support this legislation. Lack of secure encryption will bring down all the large social media companies. It happened to Blackberry during the London riots a decade ago. The kids quickly realized that someone associated with the police was reading their texts. From that point, Blackberry was doomed. Also Skype.

So let the FBI have a free hand inside facebook. Let teachers inspect the social media posts of their students. Let cops track the location tags of clandestine highschool parties. Every teenager will dump facebook, creating huge new markets for other services. Facebook will be MySpace within the decade.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#418

Post by kragen » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 4:25 PM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #413

kragen wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree.

Just to be clear, "shockingly dumb" is in reference to the incorruptibility belief, not to your claim that it's "everyone". Though from your response, I think you probably understood what I meant despite the ambiguous phrasing.

Oh, I didn't know! I thought you meant that the claim that there were literally zero people who thought they were corruptible was shockingly dumb, and I agreed, even though (construed literally) it's what I had said. Thanks for clarifying!

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#419

Post by greenie_beans » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

jimbob45 wrote: post #8

Graham (R-SC) Blumenthal (D-CT)* Durbin (D-IL) Grassley (R-IA)* Feinstein (D-CA) Cornyn (R-TX) Whitehouse (D-RI) Hawley (R-MO) Hirono (D-HI) Kennedy (D-LA)* Casey (D-PA) Blackburn (R-TN) Masto (D-NV)* Collins (R-ME) Hassan (D-NH)* Ernst (R-IA) Warner (D-VA) Hyde-Smith (R-MI) Murkowski (R-AK)* Portman (R-OH)* * are up for re-election this year. Bit of a pain to find this information really - couldn't find a single new…

Hyde-Smith is from MS not MI

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#420

Post by RustyConsul » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 4:31 PM UTC

Joeri wrote: post #292

kragen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These people seem incapable of understanding the existential threat to free society and democracy posed by limiting everyone's ability to communicate private thoughts. The existential threat this bill poses to free society and democracy is exactly why they're supporting it. It's not some accidental side effect. They're opposed to the existence of free society and democracy because it limits government power, which…

Free society means limited government, and the only way for the government to be in favor of that is for the government to vote against its own interests. I would argue that a free society protects people’s rights, and this is impossible without a strong government. As for voting against its own interests, the government in a true democracy is quite literally the will of the people. We get what we vote for. So if peo…

A democratic government is a government built and run for the 51%. Technically, pure anarchy is the only form of government that is for the people by the people because... theres only the people. Not some entity set above and beyond the reaches of 'The people', with authority over the people. Not that i believe in anarchy as the epitome of governance, but Bakunin has left me slightly jaded ever since i read him in high school.

I would agree with you that a free society is one that protects peoples rights. But... somewhere along the lines of social media and virtue signaling, protecting peoples right slowly transformed from the 'No-Harm principle' to 'Comply with X_Dogma or be canceled!'. This tendency has stiffled debate, taken away rights and shown the deep flaws in the democracy of a mob. Atleast in the US and the UK, these power structures that we have put in place are not for the people but are for the politicians within that government. If you are a democratic aspiring politician showing you can enforce paternalistic arguments among your populace is the key path to power.

in Democracy, as soon as you put someone in 'Power', the path instantly diverges between 'By the people' and 'I think therefore i am'. With the creation of an institution, it becomes an entity in it's own right. It believes that since the people bestowed this power upon them, it is their moral responsibility to protect the people.

Case in point - Smoking cigs are bad for your health and 80% of the people agree... So lets ban cigarettes!

While we are on this topic, everyone agrees that endlessly scrolling instagram is also bad, so let's put a time limit on social media - Everyone gets an hour a day!

Since this pandemic thing can happen again at any time, we might as just wear our masks forever. It's a minor inconvenience, but think of how many lives you can save!

Also, this whole Covid thing really showed that there are deadly things out there that we don't understand, and since vaccine effectiveness does not seem to resonate with people we are going to break into your house and force jab ya! Oh, Vaccine effectiveness waning... Well we designed this cocktail of immunities! Mandatory for any employees in a company over 1!

Also, since we are on the discussion of democracy... Do you think we can slide in alittle bill that says all mexicans gotta go back to Mexico? Think we can get 51% of the population to agree with the "We have put a man on the moon, we can build a fence!"

... Default::default("more racist, paternalistic, irrational arguments that democracy can concoct")