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First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

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Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#91

Post by sizzle »

jac241 wrote: post #82
bobowzki wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it drains into the peritoneum but I'm not completely sure. There's a resistance on the shunt to maintain pressure. Too high will cause hydrocephalus with all sorts of complications. Too low will cause a massive headache short term, long term I'm not sure. I'm an anesthesiologist and frequently work with neurosurgeons.

They tunnel it in the subq until the abdomen then they make a tiny incision in the peritoneum and depending on the neurosurgeon may have general surgery take a look laparoscopically to make sure there’s CSF flow then use the grasper to try to toss it in the right pericolic gutter over the liver.

How do they avoid bacteria from going up a shunt to the brain?

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#92

Post by xvedejas »

treeman79 wrote: post #75
chriscross wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too little CSF leads to the brain crushing itself under gravity. The brain is almost entirely lipids which contributes to its buoyancy in CSF. Take away too much CSF, nothing for it to float in. Too much CSF? The skull is a fixed volume (in adults) so the CSF compresses the brain tissue. In kids, the sutures or junctions between bones of the skull are still flexible. This allows for childbirth and normal rapid brain…

Had a spinal leak after a spinal tap. So too little fluid. It’s a very unique pain. Severe pain at top of head unless laying flat. I spent an entire week laying flat on a couch with a happy cat sitting on my chest. Initial treatment was an IV of caffeine. Then they they had to patch the hole.

I'm going through this right now. 3 trips to the ER to get a diagnosis, since it just happened spontaneously. Two months so far laying flat 20+ hours a day. I haven't been able to see a neurologist yet about it (I have an appointment scheduled soon now). For me, the headache is usually nearer the bottom of my head, but it tends to move around with different posture.

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#93

Post by tempestn »

xvedejas wrote: post #92
treeman79 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had a spinal leak after a spinal tap. So too little fluid. It’s a very unique pain. Severe pain at top of head unless laying flat. I spent an entire week laying flat on a couch with a happy cat sitting on my chest. Initial treatment was an IV of caffeine. Then they they had to patch the hole.

I'm going through this right now. 3 trips to the ER to get a diagnosis, since it just happened spontaneously. Two months so far laying flat 20+ hours a day. I haven't been able to see a neurologist yet about it (I have an appointment scheduled soon now). For me, the headache is usually nearer the bottom of my head, but it tends to move around with different posture.

This random stranger hopes you get to see the neurologist and hopefully get it resolved soon!

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#94

Post by serf »

sizzle wrote: post #91
jac241 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tunnel it in the subq until the abdomen then they make a tiny incision in the peritoneum and depending on the neurosurgeon may have general surgery take a look laparoscopically to make sure there’s CSF flow then use the grasper to try to toss it in the right pericolic gutter over the liver.

How do they avoid bacteria from going up a shunt to the brain?

I thought that was an interesting question as a layman. I found this, which I thought was an interesting read. [0]

[0]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/...

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#95

Post by steve_adams_86 »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #25

Wonder if transcendental meditation achieves something similar.

This comment indicated that meditation might have an effect.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30222210#30228358

Edit: here as well

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30222210#30227672

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#96

Post by axiosgunnar »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #83

Why can’t we garbage collect while conscious? (Serious question. If you simulated this washing behaviour in a conscious brain, what would go wrong and is that addressable?)

Maybe the same reason you cannot VACUUM FULL a Postgres database while used in production?

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#97

Post by rsyring »

DrScump wrote: post #76
treeman79 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had a spinal leak after a spinal tap. So too little fluid. It’s a very unique pain. Severe pain at top of head unless laying flat. I spent an entire week laying flat on a couch with a happy cat sitting on my chest. Initial treatment was an IV of caffeine. Then they they had to patch the hole.

>Initial treatment was an IV of caffeine. For you, or for the cat?

HA!...thank you for that! :)

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#98

Post by zaptrem »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #69
wincy wrote: post #3

Very cool. My daughter has a brain shunt due to complications of spina bifida and so we’re thinking of cerebrospinal fluid on a regular basis. As a layman I guess there’s a particular cerebrospinal fluid pressure you want, and that being too high or too low causes issues? Apparently the shunt just drains into her belly so I also found that interesting. Too high and she’ll have terrible headaches and an “alien” head (…

The technical founder of this company is developing wireless monitors for this cerebrospinal fluid pressure: https://www.rhaeos.com/ We got to hear him speak pre-pandemic, definitely cool tech.

I know someone who could benefit significantly from this. How would he go about acquiring one?

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#99

Post by mitjam »

treeman79 wrote: post #75
chriscross wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too little CSF leads to the brain crushing itself under gravity. The brain is almost entirely lipids which contributes to its buoyancy in CSF. Take away too much CSF, nothing for it to float in. Too much CSF? The skull is a fixed volume (in adults) so the CSF compresses the brain tissue. In kids, the sutures or junctions between bones of the skull are still flexible. This allows for childbirth and normal rapid brain…

Had a spinal leak after a spinal tap. So too little fluid. It’s a very unique pain. Severe pain at top of head unless laying flat. I spent an entire week laying flat on a couch with a happy cat sitting on my chest. Initial treatment was an IV of caffeine. Then they they had to patch the hole.

Had the same also after a tap, went away after 5 months without a patch. Only things that helped was laying flat and coffein (less so than laying flat). A hard part of it was thinking it might never go away. Doctors told me to wait 6 months before trying a patch and they said it only works sometimes.

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#100

Post by graderjs »

wincy wrote: post #3

Very cool. My daughter has a brain shunt due to complications of spina bifida and so we’re thinking of cerebrospinal fluid on a regular basis. As a layman I guess there’s a particular cerebrospinal fluid pressure you want, and that being too high or too low causes issues? Apparently the shunt just drains into her belly so I also found that interesting. Too high and she’ll have terrible headaches and an “alien” head (…

I'm not a doctor and don't at all want to pretend to presume I can understand for sure what would or wouldn't be helpful. And I'm not assuming you need help--but I just thought something I know might be helpful somehow for your daughter and you.

Certain type of yoga breathing exercises (pranayama), as a result of involving contracting muscles in the body while breathing, help to pump CS fluid through its "ventricles", as well as to move lymph around. I have no idea how a shunt works, or would interact with these exercises, but as a result of the shunt intervention I'm worried these exercises may be dangerous to your daughter. At the same time, I consider they may also be helpful, by perhaps helping to regulate pressures, or assist training the body to improve its ability to do so, or encourage circulation of the CSF and lymph. Stuff like this might be something useful to explore for you. Have a good day!

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