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The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

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Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#211

Post by charcircuit »

notfed wrote: post #168
charcircuit wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about a backdoor. I am talking about it being a part of the actual system design.

It's unclear what you're talking about then; edit and clarify. Even the most generous interpretation sounds like a backdoor.

You could imagine it as every chat having additional participant which is a person who has a valid warrant. There is nothing secretive about this, nor is it bypassing the cryptographic system somehow. If I send you an encrypted message, is it a backdoor if you are able to decrypt it? No, because that's how it's indented to work.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#212

Post by charcircuit »

mullingitover wrote: post #123
charcircuit wrote: post #61

We should design cryptosystems that include functionality that support warrants as opposed to being antiencryption and removing encryption.

The minute your system depends on good behavior from any of the parties involved, you've failed as a designer. It's like nobody learned anything from Snowden's revelations. The second those backdoors are available, they're going to be surrendered in secret to various three letter agencies in the name of national security. That's going to happen on day one. On day two they'll be breached by foreign intelligence servic…

>The minute your system depends on good behavior from any of the parties involved, you've failed as a designer.

Everyone is bad designers then. All of them rely on operating system providers not stealing your messages. Some with the people providing the chat application. Since they have to be able to display messages they are able to log them somewhere.

Society needs trust to function.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#213

Post by TrispusAttucks »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #148
EarlKing wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a society in which all media was controlled by a handful of corporations who dictated what people saw and thought. That is not by any means a free society. Then along came Bulletin Board Systems and then the Internet, and all that changed. Legislation like the EARN IT Act is meant to turn back the clock to silence the voice of the people so that, once again, only the voice of the bourgeoisie can be heard.

Then along came Bulletin Board Systems and then the Internet, and all that changed. No BBS ever changed diddly squat. Even the internet had minimal impact on politics until the 2000's. The entire comment just sounds like speculation about a time that is, in fact, fairly recent history. We had a society in which all media was controlled by a handful of corporations who dictated what people saw and thought. That only m…

To the people that participated in the BBS's it meant a lot and changed everything, for them.

I imagine they went on to affect change in the lives of those around them even if in a small way.

Grass roots, even small, is still an important catalyst for change.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#214

Post by [deleted] »

treis wrote: post #74
whatshisface wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, no, not with the media deciding what everybody heard. We had as much of a free society as convenience combined with the interests of every individual running TV news allowed. It was a complex system and I wouldn't want to describe it all here, but the fact that you and I can talk to each other in front of anyone who wants to listen in, is far ahead of anything that existed then.

>Not really, no, What? You're really arguing that, to put a year on it, in 1990 we didn't have a free society and democracy?

[deleted]

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#215

Post by catlifeonmars »

MereInterest wrote: post #89
catlifeonmars wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how it's supposed to be. According to you, which is OPs point exactly. The discussion needs to be framed in a way that stakeholders are walking in common ground, not yelling at each other at a distance from their respective ideological ivory towers. FWIW I happen to agree with you, but IMO “this is how it’s supposed to be” is not a productive argument.

Why isn't it a productive argument? This is a question about what goals society should optimize towards. There's no amount of objective measurements that can determine the relative worth of cheaper policing compared with decreased privacy. The only way for such an argument to proceed is to convince enough people that such a trade results in a world not being how it is supposed to be. TL;DR: This argument lies on the…

I wasn’t familiar with the is-ought problem, thanks! I think in this case, I was commenting on the parents presumption that the their “ought” was a universally shared (or even widely shared) axiom. In that sense stating one’s belief without defending it is not really an argument at all (in that it’s not persuasive), and therefore (in my opinion) not as productive as starting from a more universally held common ground.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#216

Post by kragen »

guy98238710 wrote: post #194
kragen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These people seem incapable of understanding the existential threat to free society and democracy posed by limiting everyone's ability to communicate private thoughts. The existential threat this bill poses to free society and democracy is exactly why they're supporting it. It's not some accidental side effect. They're opposed to the existence of free society and democracy because it limits government power, which…

> They want the police to have all the power they can get because, as far as they're concerned, they're the good guys, and giving the good guys more power helps them win against the bad guys. But we all know that giving excessive power to good guys turns them rather reliably into bad guys.

Everybody thinks they're incorruptible, and they often extend that to institutions they identify with. Very, very few people have ever honestly grappled with their shadow side. Even if you do, you may still prefer your own shadow side to that of whoever your opponents are.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#217

Post by charcircuit »

mr_toad wrote: post #170
charcircuit wrote: post #61

We should design cryptosystems that include functionality that support warrants as opposed to being antiencryption and removing encryption.

> functionality that support warrants A back door marked ‘staff only’ doesn’t actually know who is staff and who isn’t.

>A back door marked ‘staff only’ doesn’t actually know who is staff and who isn’t.

Which is my you use cryptography instead of just a sign.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#220

Post by boppo1 »

I've said it before, I'll say it again. The only way this ends with the preservation of encryption as a standard is a bipartisan fappening-style leak of CEOs, politicians, lawyers, etc. Not just sexual content, but intimate content of any and all kinds: financial records, healthcare visits, everyday texts, etc.
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