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Spam blacklisting is out of control

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Re: Spam blacklisting is out of control

#61

Post by zamadatix »

rsync wrote: post #58
vorpalhex wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We were also informed that our normal, business communications with paying customers should have unsubscribe notices appended to them. You should have an unsubscribe link. You should also have your business address and identify yourself. Even if it's not required by the letter of the law, you should add it. As an example: Amazon automatically opted me into an "alert" when a wishlist I viewed had a new viewer. Since…

"You should have an unsubscribe link. You should also have your business address and identify yourself." What would that even look like ? You're a paying customer of a service - they charge you every month - and you use that service ~daily ... and then you unsubscribe to emails ... So then what ? We just keep taking your money and when the service fails or there is an outage or critical notification we ... just don't…

Yes, just because I use your service doesn't mean I want to see every outage notification status update as an email. Preferably email subscription status would be granular so I can select what I want to get not what some idealized average user would want to get.

Re: Spam blacklisting is out of control

#64

Post by Godel_unicode »

kazinator wrote: post #48
vorpalhex wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We were also informed that our normal, business communications with paying customers should have unsubscribe notices appended to them. You should have an unsubscribe link. You should also have your business address and identify yourself. Even if it's not required by the letter of the law, you should add it. As an example: Amazon automatically opted me into an "alert" when a wishlist I viewed had a new viewer. Since…

Though that may be a nice opinion, your ISP has no business dictating that to you.

Abusix isn't their ISP, they're an email blocklist provider. Telling people what they need to do to not get blocked for being abusive is literally their job.

Re: Spam blacklisting is out of control

#65

Post by boopmaster »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #51
vorpalhex wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We were also informed that our normal, business communications with paying customers should have unsubscribe notices appended to them. You should have an unsubscribe link. You should also have your business address and identify yourself. Even if it's not required by the letter of the law, you should add it. As an example: Amazon automatically opted me into an "alert" when a wishlist I viewed had a new viewer. Since…

~rsync runs a storage service for offsite backups. You think they should add a one-click "unsubscribe" link to service alerts?

if the service is managed: customers should be able to manage notification preferences tailored to the severity of the issue, methinks.

Re: Spam blacklisting is out of control

#66

Post by gfody »

derefr wrote: post #46
wl wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We were also informed that our normal, business communications with paying customers should have unsubscribe notices appended to them. Which is to say, you're a paying customer of a service and we send you some kind of alert or critical announcement ... and it should have an unsubscribe link. You absolutely should. The amount of junk I get because someone else signed up for something and fat fingered their email ad…

That's a (very legitimate and important) reason to do double opt-in unilaterally for all email communications. Companies should make 100% sure that the person who signed up, and the person receiving the email, are the same person, before they associate the email with the account. Otherwise, malicious people can sign up arbitrary third parties for tons of random crap. But it's not a good reason for adding unsubscribe…

the email w/unsub link could be forwarded also, it's often a portal to change notification settings w/o auth and leaks personal preference info - and when there is auth it's impossible to unsub when if were signed up maliciously.

it happened to me - someone charged a bunch of stuff to my cc and then registered my email at thousands of sites to bury the email receipts (it didn't work since I have simple filters for that sort of thing) but it has been impossible to unsubscribe from all the junk. livemail's bulk optout was roughly 50% effective. the dark patterns around optout are outrageous and it's worse when you have to use google translate just to find it.

Re: Spam blacklisting is out of control

#67

Post by vsviridov »

csnover wrote: post #6

Fortunately for the author, I haven’t noticed any email servers that use the UCEPROTECTL3 RBLs to reject mail—which is to say, I’ve noticed some servers I administer end up on UCEPROTECTL3 incidentally and it has never caused a delivery problem. On the other hand, some VPS providers are still allocating multiple customers to the same IPv6 /64 using SLAAC by default, and this will make it impossible to deliver mail on…

Outlook properties seemingly use uceprotect lists. Outlook support even has a page for getting off their block list, but I could never get a reply.

And my hosting provider basically said "we're warning against using our servers for outbound email", which amounts to "we're not gonna do anything about your bad neighbors that landed you on the uceprotect lvl2&3 lists"

Been running my own email for 18 years, and outlook is the only place that i have problems delivering to.

Re: Spam blacklisting is out of control

#70

Post by scarface74 »

rsync wrote: post #58
vorpalhex wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We were also informed that our normal, business communications with paying customers should have unsubscribe notices appended to them. You should have an unsubscribe link. You should also have your business address and identify yourself. Even if it's not required by the letter of the law, you should add it. As an example: Amazon automatically opted me into an "alert" when a wishlist I viewed had a new viewer. Since…

"You should have an unsubscribe link. You should also have your business address and identify yourself." What would that even look like ? You're a paying customer of a service - they charge you every month - and you use that service ~daily ... and then you unsubscribe to emails ... So then what ? We just keep taking your money and when the service fails or there is an outage or critical notification we ... just don't…

Yes. I explicitly told you I didn’t want any emails from you.
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