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First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

bu.edu

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Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#11

Cool video, but it would be much cooler if there was some idea of the timescale (i.e. how often do these waves occur?). I doubt that it's shown real-time; perhaps 10x or 100x?

And, I've been searching for the actual study/paper, but with no success. 'Twould be good for the BU press blurb to link to it...

Pre-print: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7309589/

Final (need $$): https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aax5440

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#12
This is curious. During my research into neutral networks we depended on a neuroscience result that found waves of trophic factor (i.e. the stuff used to build up neurons [i.e. learn]) travel in cascading waves from the core of the brain to the periphery. By adding a sense of location and a learning term contingent on the factor we saw learning (xor) prohibited by Minsky's result (not really prohibited because we changed the model).

The take away was that our models of ANNs benefit from considering more that just neural signaling (i.e. solution contents and fluid dynamics). Is anyone aware of modern work expanding on that front?

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#13
post #10
post #7

Re falling asleep during MRI - I was a subject in a study where for about an hour you had to lie in a machine and repeatedly indicate which of two pictures depicted a larger object. They said subjects falling asleep was a big problem! I find sleeping very difficult and even I was feeling extremely drowsy after 45 mins of lying down and establishing "elephants are bigger than mice. Houses are bigger than shoes. Trees…

I get an MRI once a year and I frequently fall asleep because nothing puts me to sleep like mechanical white noise. It's kind of a problem because I try to move or jerk awake, which ruins the MRI. My MRIs take forever. I feel terrible for the attendants.

I used to get a funny look when instead of a choice of music I opted for silence in the headphones during an MRI. Then I think I started to say it dismissively enough with conviction and got nonreactions.

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#16

This is curious. During my research into neutral networks we depended on a neuroscience result that found waves of trophic factor (i.e. the stuff used to build up neurons [i.e. learn]) travel in cascading waves from the core of the brain to the periphery. By adding a sense of location and a learning term contingent on the factor we saw learning (xor) prohibited by Minsky's result (not really prohibited because we cha…

Was this research conducted prior to 2005?

I find the whole xor result to be pretty irrelevant, which I think is representative of the field writ large.

> Is anyone aware of modern work expanding on that front?

I am curious about this as well, as well as the general state of biological inspiration in the field. My impression was that biological analogy had largely been pretty much completely moved away from, except as someplace to take inspiration from in terms of what optimization can achieve.

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#17

Cool video, but it would be much cooler if there was some idea of the timescale (i.e. how often do these waves occur?). I doubt that it's shown real-time; perhaps 10x or 100x?

The pre-print say the pulses occur with a frequency of ~0.05 Hz (once every 20s). So at a guess the video is sped up 20x.

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#19
What is the ideal sleeping position to maximize brain wash? Is it back, side, slightly inclined? Fluids theory would surely dictate how we can better align our body to encourage this. Intuition says our neck torsion must be instrumental to a good flow.

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#20

This is curious. During my research into neutral networks we depended on a neuroscience result that found waves of trophic factor (i.e. the stuff used to build up neurons [i.e. learn]) travel in cascading waves from the core of the brain to the periphery. By adding a sense of location and a learning term contingent on the factor we saw learning (xor) prohibited by Minsky's result (not really prohibited because we cha…

That’s pretty cool. What is interesting about your studies is you have the opportunity to apply modified fluid dynamics principles to a neural environment. You might also try an approach of allowing the network to have a refresh cycle where you add byproducts that accumulate as a result of operation and must be cleansed during a separate cycle. In this other cycle you could apply other NN operations such as GAN ect to allow the network to “dream” and create/remove various pathways. This is probably beyond the scope of your work but it seems like pretty cool opportunities for experimentation since there are probably only a few thousand people on the planet that fully understand all of these concepts.
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