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Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

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Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#151

Post by unfocussed_mike »

CharlesW wrote: post #120
civilized wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a staggering battery of distortions. Company credit card? You're just assuming that everyone doing this is spending someone else's money? Everything you've written functions to blame the victim and leave Adobe harmless here.

> You're just assuming that everyone doing this is spending someone else's money? To be fair, you're also assuming that starving artists are paying for Photoshop. A quick "Adobe" search on your BitTorrent tracker of choice may change your mind.

Yes, but also we're talking about the whole Creative Cloud suite, not Photoshop here. There's a Photoshop-only plan that costs about £11 per month and there are Black Friday deals which are well understood by the budget photographer world to provide better value for money than this.

(Even then it is poor value for money, IMO; other packages cover 95% of the functionality of Photoshop and cost less than a year of this, and I really think the market understands that now)

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#152

Post by bradleyjg »

achow wrote: post #124
toyg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are purposefully evil but not competent enough to close all loopholes (or leaving it open on purpose to have an escape hatch for the most litigious customers).

Agree. It is a constant wonderment why Adobe is not called out ‘evil’ more often like its other SV brethren. They are not even good at software engineering and UX.

Evil is thrown around way to much. If you are going to use it for dishonest business practices what’s left for ISIS?

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#153

Post by stavros »

daniel-thompson wrote: post #114
stavros wrote: post #13

This isn't a solution and doesn't excuse Adobe's shitty behavior, but I use privacy.com which gives you single-purpose cards. That way, I can just pause the card and subsequent charges will fail. Then let them try to get their money. Pull-based payments are such a bad idea, implemented even worse. Privacy.com at least gives you per-merchant controls and limits, even though this really should have been a Visa default.

Their "free" plan says you can > Create up to 12 cards per month Does that mean you can create 12 in January, 12 more in February, etc? Or is it capped at 12 total?

AFAIK it's 12 every month (I have hundreds by now) but I've never reached the limit. They're vendor-locked so you need one per vendor.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#154

Post by unfocussed_mike »

civilized wrote: post #129
CharlesW wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're just assuming that everyone doing this is spending someone else's money? To be fair, you're also assuming that starving artists are paying for Photoshop. A quick "Adobe" search on your BitTorrent tracker of choice may change your mind.

Plenty of low-income people do their best to follow the law out of conscientiousness. I know some of them personally. I object passionately to the idea that, when people misunderstand communication that's designed to be maximally misleading , subject only to the constraint of legal defensibility, they are entirely to blame for falling into the trap. Adobe should be very clear and upfront about their early cancellatio…

"Annual plan, billed monthly" is demonstrably not maximally misleading.

If it said "monthly subscription" without clearly identifying the annual commitment, that would be maximally misleading.

I will grant you that it could say "Yearly plan", not "Annual plan", and be less misleading; they do appear to use this alternative phrasing in A/B tests.

If anyone from Adobe is reading this thread: make that change.

(And sort out your Photography plan: make a slimmer version of Photoshop that really does have just the features photographers need, and offer a plan for that.)

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#155

Post by CharlesW »

civilized wrote: post #125
CharlesW wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's absolutely insane that you think Adobe has fulfilled their obligations to communicate to the customer what they're getting into by putting "annual plan paid monthly" in a drop-down next to a button. "Annual plan, paid monthly" seems pretty clear to me too, so help me approach this with a new perspective. Is there a SaaS provider using the "annual plan, paid monthly" who does this "right"? Are you against this…

I reject the idea that everyone should know from these words that they will be subject to an enormous early cancellation fee if they forget to cancel before the 7 day trial period is over. Adobe has a moral obligation to explain that up-front, so that consumers who cannot easily pay the fee are adequately warned of the danger they are getting themselves into.

> I reject the idea that everyone should know from these words that they will be subject to an enormous early cancellation fee if they forget to cancel before the 7 day trial period is over.

I hear you, and I want to dig in on that a bit if you'll be kind enough to indulge me.

I'm currently helping a SaaS vendor define their pricing plan, so I'd like to know what you would like to see in order to feel comfortable with an annual, paid monthly plan. If you have any thoughts on the two questions I asked, I'd really appreciate the feedback!

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#156

Post by 41b696ef1113 »

achow wrote: post #69
stavros wrote: post #13

This isn't a solution and doesn't excuse Adobe's shitty behavior, but I use privacy.com which gives you single-purpose cards. That way, I can just pause the card and subsequent charges will fail. Then let them try to get their money. Pull-based payments are such a bad idea, implemented even worse. Privacy.com at least gives you per-merchant controls and limits, even though this really should have been a Visa default.

This is why last year India's policy for auto debit rules for credit debit card makes very good sense. Under the new norms, banks will be required to inform customers in advance about recurring payment due and transaction would be carried following nod from the customer (will need additional factor authentication from 1 April). This rule is likely to impact your monthly subscription charges for different streaming pl…

Love that. I wonder how much money is flowing from consumers on forgotten subscriptions. My bank should have a separate highlighted section for any recurring charge.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#157

Post by civilized »

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #154
civilized wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of low-income people do their best to follow the law out of conscientiousness. I know some of them personally. I object passionately to the idea that, when people misunderstand communication that's designed to be maximally misleading , subject only to the constraint of legal defensibility, they are entirely to blame for falling into the trap. Adobe should be very clear and upfront about their early cancellatio…

"Annual plan, billed monthly" is demonstrably not maximally misleading. If it said "monthly subscription" without clearly identifying the annual commitment, that would be maximally misleading. I will grant you that it could say "Yearly plan", not "Annual plan", and be less misleading; they do appear to use this alternative phrasing in A/B tests. If anyone from Adobe is reading this thread: make that change. (And sort…

Monthly subscription would simply be a legally indefensible lie.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#158

Post by [deleted] »

bradleyjg wrote: post #152
achow wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. It is a constant wonderment why Adobe is not called out ‘evil’ more often like its other SV brethren. They are not even good at software engineering and UX.

Evil is thrown around way to much. If you are going to use it for dishonest business practices what’s left for ISIS?

[deleted]

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#159

Post by acidburnNSA »

Screw those guys.

At least for amateur/hobby work, I've used the following for years and love them. I also try to regularly donate to them.

Instead of Illustrator for drawing, use Inkscape https://inkscape.org/ and/or Krita https://krita.org/en/.

Instead of Lightroom for developing digital photos, use Darktable https://www.darktable.org/

Instead of Photoshop for touchups, use GIMP https://www.gimp.org/.

Instead of Acrobat Reader, use MuPDF (mobile) or Atril https://wiki.mate-desktop.org/mate-desktop/applications/atri... (Linux)

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#160

Post by toyg »

bradleyjg wrote: post #152
achow wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. It is a constant wonderment why Adobe is not called out ‘evil’ more often like its other SV brethren. They are not even good at software engineering and UX.

Evil is thrown around way to much. If you are going to use it for dishonest business practices what’s left for ISIS?

A gradation of evil is still evil.
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