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Amazon Pip Horror Story

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Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. For a company that lives and dies by statistics in its business and technical decisions, it amazes me that they can act like employee performance on a two-pizza team is normally distributed and only about the team member. Sometimes a poorly performing team member was just a bad hiring choice. You politely let them go and work to improve your hiring process. Sometimes the person is struggling for reasons outs…

Totally agree with this and wanted to add this point as well: "Least Effective" designation is often political. Amazon claims to be data driven, so it assumes that a manager can stack rank their employees and select the lowest performer. But let's all be totally honest here, it's impossible to quantitatively rank employee performances. Any real attempt to do this results in Goodhart's law. So either managers follow s…

Agree, 100% McNamara fallacy level thinking. The easily measured things don't make up the full picture, and may even be completely wrong, but they are easily measured so they become the full picture.

I worked somewhere that did weird personality tests as part of the recruiting process.

I talked to my manager later and he basically explained it as - yeah, it predicts nothing. No one ever gets denied because of it.. but its something for HR to wave at you if a hire doesn't work out and say "see it was right here in the personality test".

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#622

I smell bullshit > I only have one humble request, if I submited 51k lines of code in January and my whole team submitted 68k, do not call me a "Least Effective" Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he works 10 hours 6 days a week. Of course he takes no bio breaks, doesn't eat or drink and is not required to attend any standups or status meetings or design reviews. This nets you 15600 minutes to code. S…

The fact that he thinks LOC has anything to do with how effective he's been as an engineer is a huge red flag.

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#623
post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the statistical truth that the worst 10% probably are negative value employees. Why is this a statistical truth? In a large, Gaussian distributed population MAYBE this is true (but hiring isn’t random, is it?). But the thresholds are not applied to large populations anywhere I’ve worked. It’s pressure applied to management at all levels.

It assumes that you have perfect measurement. Anyone who knows corporate politics, middle management machiavellianism, and inability to properly instrument development, requirements, scheduling knows this is a fantasy. That means people will devote SUBSTANTIAL amounts of their day-to-day labor in jockeying and positioning. People will be hired (wasted money and time) explicitly to be fired/PIP'd. The jockeying will r…

To wit: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hard to say. probably the people who are high enough to make any change are too removed from the action to see the problems. maybe stories like this going viral will change things (companies do anything these days to avoid bad PR).

As soon as the C Suite has the same PIP / stack rank / % attrition forced, the policy will be ended.

Why stop at C suite? Stack rank the board of directors too for good measure, and do it by shareholder vote of confidence.

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also an Amazon tech manager. I confirm that this is also my experience. Managers don't like to put people into Focus or Pivot (unless the employee is absolutely terrible, which is rare). But we all have URA quotas to fill, mandated by HR. This is absolutely terrible for team cohesion and morale; while also being the largest source of friction and inefficiency.

URA?

UnRegretted Attrition.

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#626
Last time a recruiter at Amazon messaged me, for the umpteenth time, I told them "please remove me from your recruiting databases, I am not interested in Amazon" mostly because of stories such as this one.

Good luck hiring into a toxic workplace culture, Amazon recruiters!

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#627

I smell bullshit > I only have one humble request, if I submited 51k lines of code in January and my whole team submitted 68k, do not call me a "Least Effective" Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he works 10 hours 6 days a week. Of course he takes no bio breaks, doesn't eat or drink and is not required to attend any standups or status meetings or design reviews. This nets you 15600 minutes to code. S…

The fact that he thinks LOC has anything to do with how effective he's been as an engineer is a huge red flag.

He didn't say exactly that, he said that he takes issue with his manager calling him the "least effective" person on his team. Which sure, there is some possibility that he wrote a lot of code, and it was all useless, but to be the _least_ effective while _presumably_ shipping at least some features...

Either he's incredibly, incredibly bad at what he does, or he just had the misfortune to step into the bear trap that is the Amazon PIP machine.

Knowing Amazon, he probably just got unlucky.

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#628

At this point, I'm not sure why anyone would choose to work at Amazon over other companies. What do they offer over their competitors? Same work and pay at other big tech, but you don't have to worry about potentially crazy hours or getting fired for no reason. Or any of the other great companies outside of big tech. Good pay, good impact, no PIP culture. Recruiters from AMZN are trying to lure me away from Google (a…

you are forgetting Facebook. it is Amazon culture on steroids

It's really not

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it happens, many years ago I worked for Amazon and encountered a small microwave fire in the break room. I dealt with it myself, but I realized I had no idea what the appropriate way to notify somebody about a fire. I inquired and discovered that in the event of a fire, the correct behavior would have been to return to my desk and file a Sev-2 incident with the Facilities team. This should in theory page someone w…

If anyone's curious, the correct response to a fire, presuming you couldn't immediately extinguish it, is to pull the fire alarm and evacuate the building.

Or dial 0118 999 881 999 119 7253

IT Crowd reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab8GtuPdrUQ

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#630

Why are people who do this never named? They should be named. This type of behavior perpetuates because despite this employee revealing a company issue.. the individual perpetrator can still hide behind anonymity. CALL these ass holes out.

I think that will be extremely unfair to the manager who is just acting on stupid company policies. Managers have a very difficult job of walking a tight rope. Why single out one person and ruin their career?
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