Ask HN: How can I make a “kid's computer” today as good as an Apple II?

So I figured I'd address this question if or when I had a kid. I don't have kids. But I'm glad someone asked it the way you asked it; it's very important to me that kids should learn this way, by building things rather than having structures shoveled at them.

Quick side note. My dad banned RPGs in the house. My brother was a huge D&D fan but my dad said it encouraged "follower" mentality to follow a dungeon master's idea of the storyline; and he viewed all videogames with plot elements basically the same way.

OK. So how would I approach it? I'd make a language that took all the basic elements of code (vars, control structures, etc) and made them come to life the way LOGO did. The rewards of doing something cool have to be tangible. When I was 10 or 11, my friends and I had our own code competitions in Hypercard to try to make cool screen savers or little games. We judged each other and ourselves; we'd spend 72 hours and see who made the coolest thing and we'd be honest with each other if someone else's thing was cooler. None of this was "cool" at the time but it was like we had magically tapped into some power that other kids didn't have, and that was what kept us addicted to learning. We learned from each other and from our own mistakes. The two friends I'm thinking of from elementary school are both incredible developers and business owners now; one runs a very bizarre entertainment venue, and the other is a great writer who put out a bunch of games after working at Microsoft and Bungie.

So I believe they'd have the same view on it. Here it is:

1. Concrete results need to happen quickly 2. Introducing abstract concepts (arrays, complex data structures) should be challenging but lead to far greater results 3. Results need to be "pretty". But only in the way that encourages stretching your skills further. For example, if you start a kid in a programming environment where everything is a pristine 3D world, and their job is to program the behavior of an animal, then you've done most of the work for them; their work has to actually stand out and shine. The problem with too many platforms is that they reward the kid too soon. So you made an animal but it isn't really that different from every other kid's animal. The competition between kids is critical... and so is the ability to make something unexpected. LOGO could make unexpected artifacts. Hypercard was wide open, it was just a blank page. Kids' imaginations filled the gaps, and we all wanted to make Spaceship Warlock or Myst or the Journeyman Project from that page.

What I would do? I'd probably be a terrible parent. But my advice would be to get your kid a Commodore 64 or a TRS-80 and show them the manual for BASIC. And tell the kid if you want to play a game, make a game. Then get other kids to compete on it. The sense that you can create something from nothing using these tools is a powerful motivator. Then later they can see the world where it's all "been done" and they'll probably think of something like Wordle which wasn't quite done, because they've learned how to think that way.

Just my 2¢.

[0] http://virtualii.com/ [1] https://www.kansasfest.org/

I've begun to think that learning what's hard and important about computers, and experimenting, doesn't require a computer. A computer is just one kind of sandbox. Building a structure, fixing part of a car, these have more in common with our experience of tinkering with computers than anything offered now by the social media world. Really, computers should be just another kind of mechanical thing you know how to work on, build, take apart, etc. It's what's being delivered over them these days that's poison.

Any attempt to revive that sense of wonder has to be something that seems like an achievement, which is why Lego Mindstorms keeps getting a mention. Along that vein..

- If going down the Raspberry Pi route, look at doing stuff with sensors, servo drivers, that kind of thing. The CrowPi seems to be good for that.

- An Arduino educational kit with a bunch of electronics is really good - particularly if you can get it with a proper accompanying educational programme and all of the bits. Arduino is probably better than a Pi to get some introduction to embedded and electronics, because you don’t have to have an argument with your parents about whether or not systemd is a good thing.

- Good projects are buying LED lighting strips for their bedrooms and finding ways to turn them on and wire them up. It has to be something that you can’t get from Amazon Prime, so LED strips that you have to cut and solder make it much cooler.

- 3D printing is still amazing. Kids feel that they have produced something from nothing. The sense of wonder is definitely there.

- Radio controlled electric planes or drones are good. There is a fair amount of ‘programming’ involved (of radios, ESCs, etc), and it is surprisingly more complex than you would think. Start off simple though with a kit that has some self-assembly and upgradability.

I think he might be a future product owner as he was more than happy to give me requirements for a simple game, but had no interest in how it worked.