Live data from Hacker News

Non-Consensual Personalization

amitp.blogspot.com

121–130 of 239 posts

Re: Non-Consensual Personalization

#121
post #7

The author mentions linux... but where does this happen on linux? I love using a desktop that does exactly what I tell it. Yes it takes longer to set up. But I use a computer every day, it's worth it.

I hate it when people blame linux but they're actually referring to the software that runs on linux (GNOME, PopOS, Unity, etc.) not linux itself

Re: Non-Consensual Personalization

#122
post #25

I feel like the implication is that people prevent you from customizing stuff for ego reasons, but isn't it a lot of code and testing to implement the personalization UI? But thinking about it more, I suppose the answer is to let the users write their own clients. Netflix should have a JSON API that's a list of all the programs, and each record should contain a link to video file. They don't do that because of DRM an…

There was an article on HN the other day that suggested that (and I'm paraphrasing) "only failed products have settings". We hear a lot about simplicity and how it's easier to study users and optimize for desired outcomes: conversions, upsells, continued use, whatever. Having a simple product nudges the user in the direction you want them to go and makes your product intuitive. I think there's another reason for simp…

One big problems with "settings" is it's easy for people to change them, then get confused.

You used to be able to move the taskbar around the screen, and make it taller / shorter. I'm sure some people loved this. On the other hand, I would often find people whose computers were "broken", as their taskbar was invisible, or took half the screen.

Even experts can fall for this -- I've had a few open source projects where someone complains "I did X from the documentation, but it didn't work". After a while we discover they, months ago, switched off X (or something related to X).

I'm not saying there shouldn't be settings, but they aren't a clear win. Even ignoring the fact they all need testing, they provide pain points for many users.

Re: Non-Consensual Personalization

#123
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those all mostly work out of the box these days. Even devices that don't get driver support on newer Windows anymore.

Depends on your definition of "work". I've had issues with every device I listed on Kubuntu 20.04.

I, on the other hand, had an issue with every type of device you have listed using Windows, but none on Arch Linux.

And I can add to the list devices like: an SATA to USB adapter, gamepad (not only DualShock, but also X1 Gamepad [sic!]), external CD-ROM, Wacom tablet

With each of them there was an issue on Windows, but on Linux it's Plug-n-Play; heck, even my gaming mouse needed drivers on Windows for all buttons to work, while on Linux noting additional was required

Re: Non-Consensual Personalization

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux To be fair a couple of mainstream distros are far easier to get than Windows or Mac, only people have a lot of previous Windows experience by the time they encounter Linux. These days iPads of course are at a different level, but that wouldn't be a fair comparison. Source: I had a 6 years of power user experience from Windows when I first started using Linux.

>To be fair a couple of mainstream distros are far easier to get than Windows or Mac Until you try to plug in a WiFi Dongle, printer, SD Card reader or pretty much any other piece of hardware that isn't a keyboard or mouse.

Since around 2008 most of the stuff I use have been better supported on mainstream Linux than on Windows.

Literal plug and play.

Re: Non-Consensual Personalization

#125

I feel like the implication is that people prevent you from customizing stuff for ego reasons, but isn't it a lot of code and testing to implement the personalization UI? But thinking about it more, I suppose the answer is to let the users write their own clients. Netflix should have a JSON API that's a list of all the programs, and each record should contain a link to video file. They don't do that because of DRM an…

"I suppose the answer is to let the users write their own clients"

Have you tested that supposition against the percentage of users that can write software and compared it to the percentage of users that don't code for a living?

Re: Non-Consensual Personalization

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your definition of "work". I've had issues with every device I listed on Kubuntu 20.04.

I, on the other hand, had an issue with every type of device you have listed using Windows, but none on Arch Linux. And I can add to the list devices like: an SATA to USB adapter, gamepad (not only DualShock, but also X1 Gamepad [sic!]), external CD-ROM, Wacom tablet With each of them there was an issue on Windows, but on Linux it's Plug-n-Play; heck, even my gaming mouse needed drivers on Windows for all buttons to…

A while ago I bought a used Nikon Coolscan negative scanner. The last edition of those came out in around 2004 and the last driver only supports Vista.

It came with a PCI Firewire card. My installation process on Arch was installing the card, rebooting plugging everything in and installing SANE. That's it, I could now scan my negatives.

Re: Non-Consensual Personalization

#127
So... two thoughts.

Thought one is that while personalisation can be really desirable to those who really desire it, it isn't desirable to most people for most things. Most people gravitate towards the easiest, quickest to understand option. There's a trade off between powerful, personalised approaches and easy mass market approaches. It's not an absolute conflict, but it's often there.

For a mass market entertainment app like netflix... personalisation is rarely going to "win."

Thought two is that controlling users' experience, the content they see, how they see it, when... that stuff is power. I don't think FB, for example, would be the company it is today if they didn't seek and guard the power of UI. The power to choose what goes in users' feed and control over how they interact with it.

You can think of an app as a tool that users use to do what they want. Users manipulate the app to achieve their goals. You can think of it the other way around. An app is a tool for manipulating users to achieve the app's goals. Ultimately, the web era of software lends naturally to the latter.

You design an ecommerce check-out UI. The goal is sale completion. No one is going to design a check out UI for user power. They're going to design it for sale completion. Social software (like FB, or even HN) is similar. The app has goals and it needs users to behave certain ways to achieve it. FB wants reactions, shares and whatnot from users. It wants lengthy scroll sessions and habit building. HN wants good submissions and comments, for HN's definition of submissions and comments. Social software does not want users doing whatever they want to do with the software, which might be flame wars, joke memes or spam. That's the paradigm.

Re: Non-Consensual Personalization

#128
post #107
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of major Linux distributions have made GNOME the primary or only "supported" UI, and plenty of site administrators don't want you to switch it out and may enforce that to a lesser or greater extent (e.g. not installing anything else). I do blame GNOME, but they're pretty much the face of Linux these days (I'd say ever since Mandriva went bankrupt tbh. - RedHat in particular is very closely involved in GNOME de…

Then don't run Wayland or Gnome and see how far you get without going insane. You seem to be forgetting that systems have become a lot more complex than 20 years ago and most people prefer for things to 'just work' instead of fiddling with the terminal to fix their wireless network or bluetooth headphone. And after that there are some pesky security things like every X client being able to read and inject keystrokes…

>Then don't run Wayland or Gnome and see how far you get without going insane.

Pretty far? GNOME isn't by any means the best DE out there? And Wayland is still in infancy?

Re: Non-Consensual Personalization

#129
There's a lot of non-consensual stuff going on in the software world in general.

Non-consensual interface changes.

Non-consensual functionality changes.

Non-consensual software updates.

Non-consensual deprecation of browser support. (No, I don't think "security" is a good enough argument for dropping support for a client which is someone's only device for accessing their life-essential service through a secure network.)

Non-consensual changes to user data.

Non-consensual service and software deprecation and retirement.

I got past most of this by switching to FOSS everything. Not that FOSS in general is immune, and I had to switch to different FOSS several times for most things, but by now my things have mostly stabilized.

I think most people are only starting to wake up to this being an option, not a given, and whoever provides the ability to easily own your own device, software, AND data stands to benefit others and themselves quite a bit.

Re: Non-Consensual Personalization

#130
I think in general there is this trend in UX toward treating users as helpless children, and it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you take away someone's agency, then yes absolutely they will be helpless. They will learn to be helpless, to act like children. I don't think that's something we want to aim for in general. It's bad for society and disastrous for democracy.

Maybe it's from looking too much at the data? There seems to be this notion that if the users don't immediately understand the interface, then it's a bad interface. But that's ignoring that human beings learn by fumbling. That doesn't make the world bad or the thing poorly designed.

If you take away every opportunity to learn and figure things out, to make mistakes, then you haven't helped anyone, you've made them helpless.

We should be thinking a lot more about how we can enhance user agency, how we can allow them to make deliberate choices, rather than how we can take that ability away and how to corral them into some particular behavior of our own preference.

Post reply on HN