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I took down my Starlink dish (but haven't cancelled)

jeffgeerling.com

151–160 of 258 posts

Re: I took down my Starlink dish (but haven't cancelled)

#151
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hype a couple of years ago was at a fever pitch. Starlink was going to replace all forms of internet with space-ey goodness. Millions of people getting 100mbps for $50/m on cable who just didn't like the cable company's call center reps were clamoring for Elon to save them from their predicament. I was working in the ISP space, and we did some rough back of the envelope calculations which showed that Starlink cou…

I don't think the general hype was that Starlink would replace existing ISPs everywhere. It was always understood that this product was for rural/remote areas that don't have direct lines for internet connection.

I know a surprising number of Starlink customers who are paying more for slower service compared to our incumbent ISP (Comcast). This seems to have been a very common part of the hype. I get it, there have been times in the past that I've used fixed LTE to avoid Comcast, but I actually think I was still paying less and getting faster service on fixed LTE as compared to Starlink.

Notably these are all of the Starlink customers I know despite living in a region with vast rural areas... I've heard from a couple people I know out in the country that they are stuck on the waitlist. I think Starlink may have prioritized urban areas first for whatever reason (just higher customer count presumably).

Re: I took down my Starlink dish (but haven't cancelled)

#152

I've had starlink for probably a year and a half now. It has steadily improved, gotten more reliable, and is more able to avoid trees (I alas am not in an open plain). I used to have 10 seconds of blockage every 5 minutes. Now I get some blockage every... 5 hours? I also have a 5G modem appliance that I used to use for stuff like Zoom. It actually is LESS reliable than the Starlink now. Do I do massive bandwidth down…

Why inject worthless politics talk into your otherwise fine comment...

Re: I took down my Starlink dish (but haven't cancelled)

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's clickbait at all. The concerns about power usage, proprietary connectors, and lack of ethernet or WiFi 6 seem spot on.

Regarding power usage: old lightbulbs used to be 100W, but now I get to high speed internet by connecting to low orbit satellites at my rural property... I'm not going to complain about 100W. Propriety connectors: it's not a laptop which i need to connect to many things. I set it up and leave it. Lack of ethernet: sure, that's a legitimate problem for me... $20 fix. Wifi 6: as author said, Starlink isn't fast enough…

Sounds like you are more informed after reading the article. Therefore, it's not clickbait.

Re: I took down my Starlink dish (but haven't cancelled)

#154

“Then there are other people reading who think he's the commensurate con-man” Does anyone actually think this about Elon? Think what you will about the guy’s persona, but it seems undeniable that he is doing big things in the world (and outside of it).

There are definitely a lot of people who think this. Go on twitter and search for "TSLAQ". There are people deluding themselves that Tesla isn't actually shipping the number of cars they claim. Maybe 7+ years ago you could try to make that claim and not be a laughing stock, but it's very odd at this point.

But there is proof of at least one instance of them claiming to deliver more cars than reality.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-australia-admits-it-sale...

Re: I took down my Starlink dish (but haven't cancelled)

#155
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if you just take it there and plug it in?

The dish won't work since it knows where it is via GPS and where it is supposed to be. There is a little bit of tolerance in where the dish can be moved, but certainly not 70 miles of leeway.

> There is a little bit of tolerance in where the dish can be moved,

There is so little tolerance that people are finding the dish only works say, in their driveway because the dish's required location is based off mapping data that puts a certain address at certain coordinates, regardless of where the house is (which might be set back considerably from the road.)

Re: I took down my Starlink dish (but haven't cancelled)

#156
post #24
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starlink is a game changer if you don't have decent wired broadband. We had about 1 Mbps download and were the last house on the road who could get it. Then we didn't even have that. Verizon hotspot was "ok" but data was expensive so you had to watch your usage. Starlink isn't perfect--had a couple of days downtime over Christmas--but basically it works fine with 20+ Mbps bandwidth. With the prior DSL, I couldn't hav…

Similar situation but I switched to T-Mobile. I have a Starlink order but it got delayed 6 months. At this point, I'll just cancel it because T-Mobile Home Internet is a game changer.

I did exactly this. Started using T-Mobile Home Internet (5G "trashcan" modem) back in 21.02 (same month I ordered Starlink); TMHI service has gotten progressively better since that time. 21.12 I received my Starlink ultimatum ("if you don't cancel in 14(?) days we're sending your HW and billing you $100's more") and I decided TMHI @ $50/month (yes, completely unlimited) was sufficient. Also Verizon now has competing 5G and LTE offerings, so I figure worst case I (who have NO wired ISP option) at least have a strong backup plan. As another redundancy: everyone in my household has migrated to Visible cell phone service, which provides unlimited (but throttled at 5-10 Mbps) hotspot which we use maybe 2-3 times per month when TMHI service gets sluggish.

Re: I took down my Starlink dish (but haven't cancelled)

#157

Its interesting to me how the customer service mindset between Elon's companies and a company like Amazon is so opposite. Amazon has a almost militant drive to optimize customer experience, will take anything back, will do just about anything to please their customers. They state so. Tesla, Space X in the form if starlink, solar city all seem to have pretty piss poor customer service and experience. They get away wit…

Theranos couldn’t deliver reliable tests using other people’s equipment, let alone the magic box they pretended to have invented. Their claims were pretty much impossible to fulfil.

There are Teslas driving on the roads. Starlink is serving customers. SpaceX is delivering payloads.

Like him or loathe him, Musk has delivered multiple times.

Re: I took down my Starlink dish (but haven't cancelled)

#158
post #24
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starlink is a game changer if you don't have decent wired broadband. We had about 1 Mbps download and were the last house on the road who could get it. Then we didn't even have that. Verizon hotspot was "ok" but data was expensive so you had to watch your usage. Starlink isn't perfect--had a couple of days downtime over Christmas--but basically it works fine with 20+ Mbps bandwidth. With the prior DSL, I couldn't hav…

Similar situation but I switched to T-Mobile. I have a Starlink order but it got delayed 6 months. At this point, I'll just cancel it because T-Mobile Home Internet is a game changer.

I thought about switching to one of those mobile internet providers, but it wasn’t available in my area, which I don’t quite understand. My providers network is certainly available, as I use it on my phone daily. Maybe it’s using some different band?

Re: I took down my Starlink dish (but haven't cancelled)

#159
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they have no satellite coverage in that area according to their own map. There is nowhere in the lower 48 where starlink has no satellite coverage, I believe there are still areas where they have not built out ground stations though, and since most of the satellites don't have laser links to talk to other satellites (due to issues with their original lasers not fully burning up on re-entry - now fixed) they nee…

You're just arguing nuance & semantics. For an ISP that uses satellites, ground stations are equivalent to satellite coverage. It doesn't matter how many satellites they have, if there isn't a ground station to connect to you don't have coverage. Inter-satellite links also don't do anything useful if you don't have enough ground stations. Even if you had a ground station with infinite bandwidth there is no way a sing…

I wasn't arguing, I was just adding nuance. Now I'm arguing though.

The nuance between ground station coverage and satellite coverage is extremely important for understanding spacex's business plan, which is relevant to your comment since you were saying "I don't really understand the business plan of SpaceX with respect tostarlink", with the implication that it doesn't make any sense. The difference between ground station coverage vs satellite coverage is the difference between "we're still building out the infrastructure, but we have the hard bits in place" and "this business model never scales because we need to launch way more satellites just to have basic coverage over the continent". It shouldn't be surprising that they're not done scaling the ground infrastructure, but that's not an impediment to their long term business model, because it's not the expensive bit.

> Even if you had a ground station with infinite bandwidth there is no way a single satellite can have the entire network linked through it.

This is a straw man, no one ever suggested that the entire network would be linked from a single satellite.

Rather the primary purpose of inter-satellite links is that you can expand coverage to areas away from ground stations. You route the traffic to a nearby groundstation (or better, a groundstation close to it's destination) with bandwidth available.

> but you can't really run 100+ mbps pipes like that.

Yes you can, I don't have numbers for starlink's inter-satellite links, but in general that technology is at the ~10gbps / laser link range, each satellite has 4. Light travels through space faster than in fiber, so if routed intelligently this actually lowers ping too.

> This is completely different than something like a military communications satellite where both ends of the connection are communicating through the same satellite.

Ironically, this actually describes how the current system works (as long as you treat the endpoint as a groundstation, and not an IP address somewhere on the internet).

The future system is more robust, even if there is no "other end" to talk to locally, spacex will (with inter-satellite links) be able to route you to an "other end" anywhere around the globe.

Re: I took down my Starlink dish (but haven't cancelled)

#160
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I get that it's not insignificant but it's not just a router, it's also uploading my packets to a fast moving object around 340 miles away. I'd like for it to be less but I'd also like for Openreach to put a green cabinet near my house and give me VDSL. To put it in context, my PC isn't on 24 hrs a day but it's almost certainly drawing at least 250W for the 9 or 10 hours it is on. It's just a cost of working fr…

> almost certainly drawing at least 250W You should throw a meter on it and actually check. My recent-ish Ryzen 2600 desktop, 1070 GPU, and 27" monitor use <100W when not doing something like intense gaming. Even then, under intense gaming its often between 300-500W of usage. YMMV, obviously.

If he has older monitors or multiple monitors that can be significant load. My older Dell Ultrasharp 24" monitors are around 80-100 watts each last I measured.
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