Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How can I make a “kid's computer” today as good as an Apple II?

news.ycombinator.com

1–10 of 244 posts

Ask HN: How can I make a “kid's computer” today as good as an Apple II?

#1
When I was a kid, I had an Apple II with a BASIC interpreter, Print Shop Pro to make really cool cards and banners, Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego to learn about geography, Pinball Construction Set, Number Munchers, Oregon Trail, and LOGO for programming the turtle.

Today I can't see a way of giving my kids a computer like that, where there are a lot of open-ended ways to create. The iPad games are too directly educational, or mindless, and great creative experiences don't seem available on desktop or iPad suitable for early elementary schoolers.

Any suggestions here? I will be happy to pay $.

Re: Ask HN: How can I make a “kid's computer” today as good as an Apple II?

#2
Recommend you look at something like the Raspberry Pi 400:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400-unit/

These are about USD100 a pop and need a HDMI screen and you're all set.

And then configure it to run a Basic or Python REPL on boot, to give that 1970s home PC feel.

Re: Ask HN: How can I make a “kid's computer” today as good as an Apple II?

#4
post #2

Recommend you look at something like the Raspberry Pi 400: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400-unit/ These are about USD100 a pop and need a HDMI screen and you're all set. And then configure it to run a Basic or Python REPL on boot, to give that 1970s home PC feel.

I get this same sense. I really want to need an RPi 400 out of nostalgia. My original machine was an Atari 400. It's not much to justify, but I can't think of what I'd actually do with it, other than put it on a shelf like a hipster.

I think the closest recreated retro-experience is the Commander X16[0]. The thing I like about it is that it specifically isn't a modern computer. Everything is simple right in the hardware. Other choices are often capable of running a full Linux but then used to run a script or emulator. There's definitely the realistic possibility of getting to fully know your machine, especially given that there's extensive documentation and a community.

Here's some hardware specs from c64-wiki[1] and it 'boots to basic'

    CPU: WDC 65C02S, a static descendant of the 6502
    Speed: 8MHz
    Video: The VERA module generates VGA (and other formats)
           tile and bitmap modes; 128 sprites; 128K video RAM;
           palette with 256 colors selected from a total range of 4096
    Sound: Yamaha YM2151 sound chip.
           16-channel stereo Programmable Sound Generator
           PCM audio playback up to 48kHz 16-bit stereo
    RAM: 40K "low" or "BASIC" RAM
         An additional 512K SRAM (expandable to 2MB) in 8K banks
    ROM: Banked in 16K groups; contains an upgraded Commodore KERNAL,
         DOS functions and a 16 bit ABI, and an upgraded BASIC 2.0
    Media: An on-board SD card with native FAT32 support
    Outputs: Two SNES controller ports, plus two additional SNES port headers
             PS/2 keyboard and mouse. VGA. Stereo audio. I2C bus
    Inputs: SD; four expansion slots with access to the CPU databus;
            IEC port; SNES ports; I2C bus
    Operating System: Commodore KERNAL and BASIC
    Battery-backed Microchip MCP7940N real-time-clock chip
    Form Factor: Micro-ATX
[0] https://www.commanderx16.com

[1] https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Commander_X16#Hardware_specifi...

Re: Ask HN: How can I make a “kid's computer” today as good as an Apple II?

#5
I think the problem here is that the world has moved on a lot since some of us kids were amazed at what we could make machines like an AppleII do with basic (and assembler and peek and poke).

I remember being amazingly proud of myself for getting an ascii version of Space Invaders working. I could, as a 10 or 12 year old, make something for myself that kinda looked like and was way more fun (for me) to play that _literally_ the most desirable and sophisticated "computer game" there was at the time.

I talk to a friend's 11 year old occasionally about "computer stuff", and he plays Fortnight and Roblox - and he just can't see a connection between simple child oriented computer programming, and Fortnight, which is what he would rather be playing than futzing around in Scratch (or even Minecraft).

I genuinely don't think many kids these days want t6o spend time playing with there LOGO Turtle, when they could be playing multiplayer games on their phone or iPad instead.

(And, to be fair, _most_ of the kids when I was in school just wanted to play Space Invader clones and not write Basic programs, I did most of my Basic programming in junior high on a BBC Micro, because there were not games on pirated floppy disks, which was what the AppleIIs were all in demand for. I suspect today it'll still only be a half dozen or so kids out of a school of 6 or 800 who _want_ to program computers, same as it was in '79 and '80. The rest of them will just want to play games not learn how to do magic...)

If you wanna give your kids the opportunity, I s3econd cons's suggestion of a RaspberryPi400. Add a spare HDMI monitor and you're got "the spiritual equivalent" of an AppleII. Don't get your hopes up _too_ high about your kids being the maybe 1% of people who choose to program for fun.

Re: Ask HN: How can I make a “kid's computer” today as good as an Apple II?

#6
I was just thinking about how to give my 4 year Old my experience growing up. I had a Mac, and I remember with great joy wandering around “Cosmic Osmo”, and drawing my own imaginations in MacPaint.

There are games, and paint programs, but many of them seem too directed. Too much intention.

Re: Ask HN: How can I make a “kid's computer” today as good as an Apple II?

#7
post #5

I think the problem here is that the world has moved on a lot since some of us kids were amazed at what we could make machines like an AppleII do with basic (and assembler and peek and poke). I remember being amazingly proud of myself for getting an ascii version of Space Invaders working. I could, as a 10 or 12 year old, make something for myself that kinda looked like and was way more fun (for me) to play that _lit…

I have actually never thought of it like this, excellent answer!

Re: Ask HN: How can I make a “kid's computer” today as good as an Apple II?

#8
I had a similar problem a few years ago. While I never found the perfect machine here is how I have been introducing my now 10 year old son to the world of computers:

- I bought him a Kano computer kit when he was about 7. The kit retailed for about $250 at the time and a kid could assemble it "like LEGO". It came with educational software that introduced him to programming languages, etc. (Unfortunately I do not think they make this kit anymore.) Verdict: MINOR SUCCESS.

- I tried to introduce him to Python (around 7.5) by following an online book about game programming. He did not show much interest. Verdict: FAILURE.

- I introduced him to MakeCode (arcade.makecode.com) around 8. He got absolutely hooked and it is still his favorite platform today. I bought him some cheap hardware (Meowbit) to put his programs on and he loves showing off his games to his friends and everyone else. Verdict: MAJOR SUCCESS.

- I introduced him to Godot when he was 9. He showed strong interest, built a few games in it and even understood enough of the Python like language that Godot has. He used this series of YouTube videos to learn about Godot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvPTSZl2WCc. Verdict: MEDIUM SUCCESS.

- We are currently building Ben Eater's 8-bit computer (eater.net/8bit) and he absolutely loves it. He is able to follow along with the videos and understand the material at a good level. He has named the computer "Terry". This project does require a lot of my own time. Verdict: MAJOR SUCCESS.

We have also tried other projects (e.g. Raspberry-pi with Raspbian, Arduino, Robotics kits, etc.) although nothing that he showed major interest at the time. I think you have to try with different things to see what will capture your child's imagination.

Re: Ask HN: How can I make a “kid's computer” today as good as an Apple II?

#10
post #2

Recommend you look at something like the Raspberry Pi 400: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400-unit/ These are about USD100 a pop and need a HDMI screen and you're all set. And then configure it to run a Basic or Python REPL on boot, to give that 1970s home PC feel.

The hardware is the easy part. It's the software that's the tricky part. That Apple II software was something a 5 year old could have fun with, which a REPL would be hard to do. It had enough rails to be usable but enough user input to be creative.
Post reply on HN