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An open call to restore normalcy for U.S. children

urgencyofnormal.com

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Re: An open call to restore normalcy for U.S. children

#11

Post by drewrv »

endisneigh wrote: post #4

I don’t know how anyone can support restrictions at this point. All school aged children can be vaccinated and the vaccine is effective at decreasing hospitalization and death.

> I don’t know how anyone can support restrictions at this point.

Off the top of my head...

- Kids can spread it in their community

- Adults and elderly people work at schools

- Not all kids are fully vaccinated

- Kids are adaptable, it's adults who are throwing temper tantrums about having to wear a mask

- Most of the mental health effects mentioned in the article are consequences of school closures, not caused by wearing a mask and reducing crowding in the cafeteria. In fact masking can make school more normal and routine, by reducing the need for substitute teachers, or skipping PE because the gym teacher is out sick, etc.

Re: An open call to restore normalcy for U.S. children

#12

Post by drewrv »

kerneloftruth wrote: post #2

This is especially timely and relevant as a recent John's Hopkins study reports: https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2022-02-02/a...

I feel like it's worth pointing out this study is from Johns Hopkins Institute for Applied Economics, Global Health and the Study of Business Enterprise.

The authors are all economists, none have a background in epidemiology or medicine.

Re: An open call to restore normalcy for U.S. children

#14

Post by Gibbon1 »

cplusplusfellow wrote: post #6
endisneigh wrote: post #4

I don’t know how anyone can support restrictions at this point. All school aged children can be vaccinated and the vaccine is effective at decreasing hospitalization and death.

I’m unaware of any data showing that children require vaccines to avoid hospitalization and death in large numbers. Can you share some?

No post body was provided.

Re: An open call to restore normalcy for U.S. children

#15

Post by pmg102 »

robhunter wrote: post #8
hedora wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Large" is subjective, and the vaccine moves the decimal point one or two digits in the correct direction. Also, as a matter of practicality, you don't want a steady state where a rotating 10-20℅ of the class is out with whatever the current covid variant is.

Sure, but to the second point, the vaccines also don't materially reduce transmission

They somewhat reduce it. Perhaps by 50%, against currently dominant variant (which is itself of course subject to change.)

Everything that helps to reduce prevalence helps kids stay in the classroom.

Here in the UK there's a huge subpandemic among 5-11 year old schoolchildren, a group which are not vaccinated. I have a child of this age, off twice with covid in the last few months. I wonder if it'd be more effective to vaccinate them or to just do away with self isolation rules for them. The problem is the spillover into parents, who will be at higher risk due to age and possobly at much higher risk if clinically vulnerable.

On this one I find it hard to form a strong opinion.

Re: An open call to restore normalcy for U.S. children

#17

Post by ZeroGravitas »

drewrv wrote: post #12
kerneloftruth wrote: post #2

This is especially timely and relevant as a recent John's Hopkins study reports: https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2022-02-02/a...

I feel like it's worth pointing out this study is from Johns Hopkins Institute for Applied Economics, Global Health and the Study of Business Enterprise. The authors are all economists, none have a background in epidemiology or medicine.

Economists do this a lot.

Turns out Dvorak wasn't any better than Qwerty say keyboard ergonomic experts, oh no actually it's free market economists who think the market is never wrong and Qwerty is an annoyingly popular contradiction.

Betmax wasn't higher quality than VHS say analog video quality experts, oh no it's free market economists who think the market is never wrong and Betamax/VHS is an annoyingly popular counterexample.

Recycling doesn't actually help the planet say ecology experts, oh no wait it's those free market economists who don't believe the market is ever wrong and recycling is a popular counterpoint.

And so on..

Re: An open call to restore normalcy for U.S. children

#18

Post by lazide »

robhunter wrote: post #9
bsder wrote: post #5

At this point, Omicron has made pretty much everything moot. After this wave recedes and the hospitals unblock, I suspect everybody is going to go back to normal and treat Covid like we treat the flu.

I'd love to agree with you, but having engaged with local school board trustees on a number of tangential issues, I'm pessimistic. I think there's a lot of people who have permanent scar tissue as a result of the last two years, and aren't likely to ever go back to normal.

That’s pretty normal anyway - it’s a spike in total count, but there have always been folks who couldn’t handle life who act out in ways directed at public servants. It’s unfortunate, but if you attend any city council meetings you can’t miss them.

The reality is, we can’t stop that and we can’t let everything else stop because of that either.

Re: An open call to restore normalcy for U.S. children

#19

Post by ZeroGravitas »

nnoitra wrote: post #16

Quoted post unavailable.

Should we be worried that the top comments on so many stories here are dark mutterings about how the forces that secretly control our society are causing the democratically elected governments to intentionally kill the sheeple for somewhat vague and unexplored reasons? It's all got a bit apocalyptic and dark recently.

Is this what we believe as a community? If not, why is it so often at the top? Do most people just not engage with the stories that evoke these reactions. Or should I expect to be reading earnest debate about Bill Gates plan to inject 5G chips into people to track the population on HN soon?

Re: An open call to restore normalcy for U.S. children

#20

Post by mcv »

endisneigh wrote: post #4

I don’t know how anyone can support restrictions at this point. All school aged children can be vaccinated and the vaccine is effective at decreasing hospitalization and death.

Even through the worst of the pandemic, children going to school has always been my primary concern. I'm totally fine with having to work from home for a few more years. Restaurants and big events closed sucks, but I can live with that. I personally really miss church, but I can totally see how a big crowd indoors singing is one of the most high-risk activities you can do. I'll survive.

But children need school. They need to socialise. Homeschooling can work, but it puts a serious strain on the parents, the kids, and their education. Until last week, Dutch kids would be quarantined until tested if a certain number of their class mates tested positive, but in the face of omicron, that lead to entire schools closing, so they ended that.

With everybody vaccinated and boosted, Covid is as under-control as it can possibly get. It's not going to get better than this for the time being, and with the vaccine and omicron's lower lethality, deaths seem to be down. The biggest problem there is that there are still unvaccinated people occupying ICU beds, leading to non-Covid related treatment getting postponed, and sometimes leading to deaths.

I think we should still do all the low-hanging fruit: wear masks, keep distance where possible, wash often, but other than that, open everything that's not clearly a very high-risk activity. And voluntarily unvaccinated people should not fill ICU beds that other people need.

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