Live data from Hacker News

New lightweight material is stronger than steel

news.mit.edu

51–60 of 162 posts

Re: New lightweight material is stronger than steel

#51
post #33
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to say without reading the paper itself, but in general one should be skeptical of claims that such-and-such material is stronger than steel. The properties that make steel interesting are not its elastic modulus or yield strength. This material is probably closer to graphite (which beats steel in elastic modulus and yeild strength) than something you would actually want to use in a structural application.…

I'm curious, in that case what properties do make steel interesting?

Well, its elastic modulus and yield strength are pretty important, actually. Being stiff and strong is pretty fundamental to a lot of its uses. It's stiffer and stronger than most other everyday materials and virtually all everyday plastic materials. Glass, quartz, alumina, zirconia, and porcelain are stiffer than steel, and glass can be stronger, but they're all brittle rather than plastic, which is pretty inconvenient and often makes them very weak in tension. Wood, most other fired clay, aluminum, brass, nearly all organic polymers, mica, cotton, dirt, etc., are much floppier and weaker than steel.

But there are a lot of metals that are somewhat stiffer and stronger than steel, like chromium, platinum, and tungsten, while still being somewhat plastic. The great advantage that steel has over them is that it's unbelievably cheap. It's even cheaper than brass, bronze, and lead!

Plasticity (ductility and malleability) is important for a couple of reasons. First, as I mentioned above, it greatly increases the fraction of the material's theoretical strength you can get in practice. Second, it allows you to form the material instead of cutting it to shape. That's the property you're using when you wrap a sandwich in aluminum foil or tie a gate shut with baling wire. You can't do that with porcelain foil or porcelain rod. Third, ductile failure happens gradually rather than suddenly, which is important in some cases.

The other really interesting thing about steel is that it's hardenable. This is very significant because cutting and forming hard things is hard. So it's routine to cut or form steel in its soft state to get more or less the shape you want, harden it, and then grind it and maybe lap it to the precise shape you want. Grinding and especially lapping can be very precise and cut very hard materials, but they're very slow processes.

Finally, steel can withstand much higher temperatures than organic materials, or even most other common metals.

These are, I think, the major reason why steel has so extensively displaced what Andrew Carnegie liked to call "inferior materials".

Re: New lightweight material is stronger than steel

#52
post #33
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to say without reading the paper itself, but in general one should be skeptical of claims that such-and-such material is stronger than steel. The properties that make steel interesting are not its elastic modulus or yield strength. This material is probably closer to graphite (which beats steel in elastic modulus and yeild strength) than something you would actually want to use in a structural application.…

I'm curious, in that case what properties do make steel interesting?

The two main properties that make steel interesting are 1) cost 2) toughness.

Toughness in a material science sense is the ability to absorb energy before failure. This has two major components, yield strength (energy to initiate deformation) and ductility (ability to deform without fracture).

The ductility of steel (and of many other metals) is what drive their use in structural applications, whereas many materials, i.e. ceramics, have higher yield strength but almost no ductility. Even though many glasses are "stronger than steel", if you drop a glass bowl and a steel bowl only one will shatter. If your I-beam shatters you are in trouble.

Steel is interesting in comparison to other metals because iron and carbon are abundant and the iron-carbon system has a lot of interesting features that can increase both strength and ductility.

Re: New lightweight material is stronger than steel

#53
post #33
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to say without reading the paper itself, but in general one should be skeptical of claims that such-and-such material is stronger than steel. The properties that make steel interesting are not its elastic modulus or yield strength. This material is probably closer to graphite (which beats steel in elastic modulus and yeild strength) than something you would actually want to use in a structural application.…

I'm curious, in that case what properties do make steel interesting?

another great plus is its weldable

Re: New lightweight material is stronger than steel

#54
post #33
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to say without reading the paper itself, but in general one should be skeptical of claims that such-and-such material is stronger than steel. The properties that make steel interesting are not its elastic modulus or yield strength. This material is probably closer to graphite (which beats steel in elastic modulus and yeild strength) than something you would actually want to use in a structural application.…

I'm curious, in that case what properties do make steel interesting?

It's really tough (i.e. not just strong but ductile as well i.e. able to stretch more without fracturing like a brittle material would) and relatively cheap to manufacture (both because the industrial process is scalable, and because iron is incredibly abundant). When cost isn't an issue, you don't use normal low alloy steel - you use expensive alloying elements like chromium for corrosion-resistant stainless steel or more relevant to this comparison, nickel for maraging steel which is several times as strong as ordinary steel.

Re: New lightweight material is stronger than steel

#55
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's stronger & lighter than steel and produces less CO2 than steel manufacturing...

Forgot the most important part, is it cheaper than steel?

Also can it be produced at scale we produce steel... Which is mind boggling when you really start to think of all the stuff.

Re: New lightweight material is stronger than steel

#56
post #33
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to say without reading the paper itself, but in general one should be skeptical of claims that such-and-such material is stronger than steel. The properties that make steel interesting are not its elastic modulus or yield strength. This material is probably closer to graphite (which beats steel in elastic modulus and yeild strength) than something you would actually want to use in a structural application.…

I'm curious, in that case what properties do make steel interesting?

Mainly it's the ability to absorb energy and punishment. Many materials have an elastic range, where if you deform it within that range, it will return to its original shape. Of those, a lot of materials, including many metals, are relatively brittle - once you push it past its "elastic limit" it just breaks. There are ways to make steel more like that too, but in general steel doesn't break at that point, it "yields" or deforms permanently (inelastically). You can keep on deforming it (and in fact it actually gets slightly stronger while you're doing that, which is an interesting feature) and it goes way way beyond what you would think possible before it finally breaks. So as a result it can absorb tons of energy, which makes it interesting for strength applications. The steel frame of a building in an earthquake for 30 seconds is absorbing tons of energy while hopefully not collapsing, or even in the worst case it at least allows a bunch of extra time for at least some of the occupants to escape. Or a steel-framed car that crashes into a pole - the steel crumples, absorbs energy, and slows the car somewhat more gradually in the process. If the frame were a brittle material it might just shatter on impact.

Re: New lightweight material is stronger than steel

#57
post #46

Can't wait for 3D printed parts made out of this stuff. > the new material’s elastic modulus — a measure of how much force it takes to deform a material — is between four and six times greater than that of bulletproof glass. They also found that its yield strength, or how much force it takes to break the material, is twice that of steel, even though the material has only about one-sixth the density of steel. That's g…

It always amazes me at how many people don't really understand how buoyancy works.

I mean, if you stuck it in a puddle of liquified hardwood, maybe it would float.

Re: New lightweight material is stronger than steel

#58
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a couple of concerns - Can it be recycled? Right. We have enough issues with plastic waste, without it having extra-ordinary strength.

It's possible the strength could reduce microplastics?

Or increase the risk posed by microplastics.

Very tiny, very sharp flakes of very strong materials could be asbestos 2.0

Re: New lightweight material is stronger than steel

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also steel is 100% recyclable. If I recall correctly, most steel used today is recycled.

Most steel in the US and Europe is recycled. I believe most steel in China and to a larger extent Asia comes out of a giant pit in Australia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yandicoogina_mine

That mine runs fully automated ore trucks and the owner Rio Tinto wants to automate the rest. 950 ppl produce 18% of the world's iron ore from that pit.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-18/rio-tinto-opens-world...

Re: New lightweight material is stronger than steel

#60
post #5

Hmm, here it says 2D polymers were created first at ETH in 2012: https://scitechdaily.com/two-dimensional-polymers-created-fo... Either way, looking forward to buying this stuff cheap and in bulk from McMaster!

Probably will be a go-to for fixing up old buildings and failing bridges. We always can use more tools there.

On the other hand, I wonder what kinds of hoops one has to jump through to demolish/recycle this material.

Post reply on HN