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Israel rolls out laser defense system

reuters.com

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Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system

#191

Post by doodlebugging »

m0llusk wrote: post #144
doodlebugging wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who follow satellite data in order to understand global patterns of earthquakes and weather saw what looks like beams from unknown sources hitting areas that then caught fire. What? Is there a link to any of this or is it just standard internet BS? I've heard of earthquake lights and there may be something to that. Never heard of anything focused on places that later caught fire. The fires that I am aware of…

At the time I saw the videos on YouTube postings from "dutchsinse". Why is it my job to do your research? Videos of what appear to be moving globs get people yelling about UFOs and now videos of what appear to be beams just before fires get people yelling about space lasers. Do you really think that being sloppy and full of emotion and attitude somehow makes you superior and on top of all of this? If you actually dar…

Somewhere in the space between the period at the end of your first sentence and the capital W it looks like your meds failed you. Are you manic depressive? Do you spend your days locked away from real people to the point that you feel attacked whenever someone responds to one of your posts?

You should spend some time watching network TV. I'm sure somewhere in the drivel you can find a pharmaceutical commercial for a product that will help you repair your problems relating to people.

Your reply after the first sentence is a steadily deteriorating jumble of accusations and assumptions. You must have me confused with someone else or your reading comprehension skills are terrible.

> Why is it my job to do your research?

Standard forum etiquette for a long time has been to include sources for claims if those sources were requested. This helps to educate readers and to identify sources of misinformation thus keeping BS out of the stream, kind of like a mollusk, filtering all that water as it passes.

If you had not indicated some familiarity with the subject matter then I would not have asked to see the source material. If being asked for source material is somehow embarrassing to you then that is a different issue.

Your assumptions are all way off of the mark.

"...sloppy and full of emotion attitude..." Wow, I really think you have me mixed up with someone else.

>If you dared to read my post...

The fact is that I did read your post and, as noted above, that is the reason that I requested a source. You set yourself out as someone who was familiar with and potentially in agreement with the data and I wanted to see the same data so that I could draw my own conclusions.

>you are too scared...

Again, you suggested that you had seen some of the space laser evidence and I requested a source. It has been "Tits or GTFO", "Pics or it didn't happen", etc forever online. What is your problem?

>All you care about is a political wingnut.

What? Your train of rational thought derailed several sentences back. With all the high-tech monitoring tools available to railroads, the wide adoption of cell phones with cameras, and the cancer of social media to help relay that information, I'm sure someone will be along directly to help you get back on track.

Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system

#192

Post by doctorhandshake »

skinnymuch wrote: post #150
doctorhandshake wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. I find it amazing that the world expects Israeli leadership to ignore the stated goal of Hamas is to eradicate Israel[1]. Sometimes I ask people to imagine what it would be like if the inhabitants of a large Native American reservation began shelling a nearby US city after openly stating they will not rest until the USA is wiped from the earth. I’m choosing the Native American hypothetical advisedl…

> Sometimes I ask people to imagine what it would be like if the inhabitants of a large Native American reservation began shelling a nearby US city after openly stating they will not rest until the USA is wiped from the earth. This is easy. They have some valid claims in principle. They also have essentially no power or weapons. After the initial surprise. They’d be able to do nothing. Or in effect nothing. If the US…

I think we're mostly in agreement here.

> What is this example supposed to show?

It's an analogy, not an example. It's meant to present a hypothetical, similar situation in another context in order to help people who can't relate to something happening across the world, in a place they've never been, see that situation in a way they can understand.

> The saddest part of this example is leaving out the Palestine. It’s very sad that they don’t even get to be part of the example.

It's an analogy. If Palestine were literally included, it would no longer be an analogy.

> Why can’t Israel leave Palestine alone?

Because of the rocket fire and bombings combined with the repeated public stating of a goal to exterminate the state and people of Israel.

> Why do they have to incorporate Palestine into Israel?

They don't. That just seems like it's one of the only outcomes that allows both groups to share the land they claim.

> The one thing that shouldn’t be done is cutting the grass as Israel does now.

That's for sure. It's indiscriminate and savage and on top of that counterproductive. Israel has shown time and again that they are capable of surgical military operations in the most hostile of territories. If their intent is truly to reduce the capability of Palestinian fighters to attack Israel, they are more than capable of doing that with minimal loss of life.

Unfortunately, Israel has a similar problem to that in the US (another useful commonality in my analogy) in that there is a large hawkish segment of the population and political class who feel justified in punitive military violence. They are gratified in the overwhelmingly disproportionate response to the feeble rocket attacks coming out of Gaza. Again, the specifics of my analogy are chosen advisedly - what I meant to point out was what the world would expect to see if anyone at all fired rockets at Americans. They'd wipe those people off the map.

I'm not endorsing that outcome, I'm just pointing out that when the US does it, it's considered de rigueur, but when Israel does it, it's considered barbaric. But can you think of another example, anywhere in the world, where a population are supposed to allow their cities to be literally shelled and attacked with rockets and, as you say, 'Leave the [attackers] alone?' That's not a practical solution.

> Israel being able to remain their own country and be prepared and strong. Nothing wrong with that! Why would there be?

Agreed. Unfortunately, Palestinian (and their backing Iranian) leadership does not agree.

Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system

#193

Post by nradov »

skinnymuch wrote: post #153
LorenPechtel wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza used to be the most prosperous Arab nation that didn't have oil. That's not good for recruiting cannon fodder so they launched the second intifada to destroy the economy. They focus on destroying Israel because it brings them money.

They? Do you not see how offensive that is to group together 1.7M people like that? When if that same sort of wording happens for almost any other situation, it’s called out as wrong, which it obviously is, very quickly. There is a common dog whistle and coded word sort of stuff especially recently with China. Instead of specify the authoritarian Govt and elite in China, one may say the Chinese used to be X but now t…

Palestinians literally elected Hamas in a democratic election. So actions by Hamas apparently represent the will of the people. That's hardly comparable to China and North Korea, which are authoritarian dictatorships where the governments were never elected.

Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system

#194

Post by sharikous »

littlestymaar wrote: post #190
sharikous wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will gloss over the way you speak about Israeli losses. I am pretty sure you wouldn't speak like that ("only 13+67 dead, oh the pity!") if it were your country. But logically this way of measuring harmfulness is idiotic. Hamas couldn't make more victims precisely because Israel had a lot of defensive and offensive systems to prevent that. All those systems are expensive financially, militarily, from a PR perspectiv…

> I will gloss over the way you speak about Israeli losses. I am pretty sure you wouldn't speak like that ("only 13+67 dead, oh the pity!") if it were your country. Of course I would! We (France) have lost more military than this (and a much much higher ratio among involved soldiers) in extra territorial operations in the past few years and we don't make a big deal about how powerful the African armed groups are… The…

Now I can understand what you are saying. There is definitely something in your point. But it's more complex than that.

See, the Palestinian leadership needs to have an enemy too. And you say of the far-right in Israel they are "expansionist and racist", well Hamas/Fatah are arguably worse.

And it's not like there would be no enemies and no need for a powerful military once Gaza is conquered and Hamas neutered (Iran? Hezbollah?).

There are powerful interests in the Israeli side wanting to keep Hamas a menace, but there are also big interests on the Palestinian side too to keep the war going.

Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system

#195

Post by nradov »

HWR_14 wrote: post #160
RivieraKid wrote: post #131

Is there a consensus on whether a nuclear missile shield would be feasible, regardless the technology? Basically, if the US invested 1% of the GDP into developing a missile shield, could it achieve let's say a 98% success rate against incoming missiles?

The issue is global conflicts have a lot of missiles. Your 98% success rate probably still means most Americans are dead. IIRC Russia's ICBMs are measured in tens of thousands, and each one could take out a major US city (until we ran out)

Russia has only about 1600 operational nuclear warheads on a much smaller number of ICBMS. It's not tens of thousands.

https://thebulletin.org/premium/2021-03/nuclear-notebook-rus...

But even with that lower number you're correct that we have no hope of defending against a major strike.

Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system

#196

Post by littlestymaar »

skinnymuch wrote: post #153
LorenPechtel wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza used to be the most prosperous Arab nation that didn't have oil. That's not good for recruiting cannon fodder so they launched the second intifada to destroy the economy. They focus on destroying Israel because it brings them money.

They? Do you not see how offensive that is to group together 1.7M people like that? When if that same sort of wording happens for almost any other situation, it’s called out as wrong, which it obviously is, very quickly. There is a common dog whistle and coded word sort of stuff especially recently with China. Instead of specify the authoritarian Govt and elite in China, one may say the Chinese used to be X but now t…

> They? Do you not see how offensive that is to group together 1.7M people like that?

Unfortunately, The far right Israeli actually do think that way, here's a quote from the current ministry of Interior, Ayelet Shaked

> “This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started it.”

And another one:

> “Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.”

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayelet_Shaked

Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system

#197

Post by littlestymaar »

jlawson wrote: post #55
hadlock wrote: post #32

I'm curious where the tipping point is, where the military response exceeds the financial cost of a political response. It's one thing to have tensions simmering on both sides of a border, it's another that one side feels wronged and is lobbing bombs over the fence. The fact that they're having to develop a laser defense system to defend against lobbed bombs seems like it's time to reevaluate political solutions.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is just war propaganda. This isn't the sixties anymore, Israel isn't surrounded by a coalition of pan-Arab states wishing to destroy it. In fact, a good chunk of the Arab world is now closely linked and maintain good relations with Israel (Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc.)

Congratz, you've just been brainwashed by the military industrial complex who just want to maintain Israel in a state of perpetual war to sustain ever-increasing defense spending.

Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system

#198

Post by chongli »

awakeasleep wrote: post #162
chongli wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aluminum foil reflects about 85% of visible light. Gold reflects 98% of visible light. Neither of these materials would be effective in protecting against a 100kW laser. That remaining 2% is 2kW of light energy directed at a small target. It’ll rapidly ablate the gold foil and then the target will begin to absorb the full power.

Wouldnt the rocket continue moving towards its target during the ablation?

The goal of the laser is to destroy the electronic detonator inside the warhead. If the detonator is destroyed then the potential damage from the missile is reduced from catastrophic to manageable. With a 100 kW laser I think the whole process could happen in less than a second.

Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system

#199

Post by dang »

jlawson wrote: post #55
hadlock wrote: post #32

I'm curious where the tipping point is, where the military response exceeds the financial cost of a political response. It's one thing to have tensions simmering on both sides of a border, it's another that one side feels wronged and is lobbing bombs over the fence. The fact that they're having to develop a laser defense system to defend against lobbed bombs seems like it's time to reevaluate political solutions.

Quoted post unavailable.

Your account has unfortunately been using HN primarily for political and ideological battle. That's not allowed here, regardless of your politics or ideology. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for, so we ban accounts that do it. We've already had to warn you about this multiple times before.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN as intended from now on, we'd appreciate it.

Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system

#200

Post by dang »

littlestymaar wrote: post #197
jlawson wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is just war propaganda. This isn't the sixties anymore, Israel isn't surrounded by a coalition of pan-Arab states wishing to destroy it. In fact, a good chunk of the Arab world is now closely linked and maintain good relations with Israel (Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc.) Congratz, you've just been brainwashed by the military industrial complex who just want to maintain Israel in a state of perpetual…

Flamewar comments like this will get you banned here. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN as intended from now on, we'd appreciate it.

That includes not using HN primarily for political or ideological battle. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

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