Earlier quoted context omitted.
The rocket is moving at perhaps mach 4+. The laser has to strike a singular spot. So holding focus for multuple seconds is an as-yet-unsolved problem. Of course, hitting an incoming missile at all is at the edge of current capability.
I was interested in validating or invalidating the mach 4 number. I guess it depends on the specific rocket, but the 122 mm M-21OF-M Rocket, sometimes referred to as Katyusha (although that was the name of a specific launcher, not the rocket [0]) is 660 m/s or about mach 2 [1]. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher 1. https://kintex.bg/product-4-77
Israel rolls out laser defense system
181–190 of 250 posts
Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Automated counter-battery in addition to AD would be an interesting extra layer of deterrence.
Israel doesn't do counter-battery. 1) Very often the launcher is unattended at the time of launch. You wouldn't get anything but an empty weapon. 2) You can be sure that the counter-battery fire would hit a lot of human shields. Hamas *loves* human shields.
2/ like AD you can have red/green zones for pre-authorized counter-battery
Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Especially the main point I made of the listing of states in conflict where it is similarly not possible for the smaller side to wipe out the nicer one. You're conflating the sides of the conflict here. It's not palestinians versus israelis, and it started much earlier than in 20th century. Arabs have already wiped out all the jews from their states already in 1940s — some managed to flee to Israel, but many more w…
You’ve most the goal posts and entire discussion. What do Palestinians especially in Gaza, have to do with Arabs as a whole? Your original comment specifically said Palestine. So the topic is Palestine and Israel only. And that’s what it was when I did my comment. Also to note, Arab countries don’t care about Palestine. Egypt actively hurts Palestinians for example. Arab country leadership are awful. Otherwise your c…
I'm sorry, but I honestly don't see any way of continuing a good faith, productive and civilised discussion after this question. I always try to steelman my opponent's arguments, but I just can't find a way to look at this and not perceive it as trolling.
Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's way more complicated than that, but anyway for the past 30 years Israel has been at peace with their neighboring countries and isn't realistically being threatened (yes I know Iran talks a lot, but in practice they are completely unable to strike Israel, while the opposite isn't true, so it's not really as if the threat was meaningful). All that remains is a colonial war against Palestinian people to put hold on…
I disagree profoundly. You say that it wasn't a war because Israel didn't lose too many people? Perhaps the aggressor should have thought about that before starting a war. Israel put a lot of effort in defending itself, so your premise isn't even correct. It is a perverse rationalization that doesn't even warrant a serious response. Frame it as colonial as you wish, the fact is a systematic prosecution of Jews in alm…
Its not a war, there is no state involved, just a terror group in Gaza, conveniently left in charge there, while curiously Tsahal is perfectly capable of shutting down any uprising in the territory they want to annex (the West bank), intriguing isn't it? Gaza isn't any harder to occupy than the West bank, but having Hamas as an enemy is just too convenient. (So convenient it would be too bad if Hamas collapsed [1]).
> Frame it as colonial as you wish, the fact is a systematic prosecution of Jews in almost all surrounding countries.
There's two different things:
- The currently Israeli government is currently pushing a colonization project in the west bank (and it's not even hidden).
- Jews living in the Arab world for centuries have been persecuted by Arabs in (in “retaliation to Israel's activity” as if those people had anything to do with any of it…). Sadly enough since those Mizrahi Jews fled to Israel, they have been discriminated against and are still somewhat treated as second-class citizens[2].
[1]: https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-netanyahu-...
[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Sephardim_and...
Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or maybe stop starving and killing the children living in Gaza who will then make proud soldiers of the Hamas when they grow up, repeating the endless circle of violence? And maybe stop encouraging Qatar to fund Hamas[1]? Yes, you read that right, and the source is a reputable Israeli newspaper. Hamas is a really convenient opponent for the Israeli government: they are evil, corrupt and basically harmless, but they a…
It's not so simple. There is a layer of power between Israel and the children of Gaza Israel is not in control of (that's Hamas). It's also not about starving, nobody is starving, but for sure there are electricity blackouts, and a poor life quality in the strip. In fact Israel provides Gaza with food and electricity. And there are wealthy Gazans with super villas, luxurious cars and diamond covered iPhones (powerful…
Oh yeah, like when Saddam had the strongest army in the world and mass destruction weapons…
Regarding Rockets: last time Hamas sent all their rockets accumulated for the past few years, they have killed 13 people! That's not bad for a lone wolf acting on behalf of ISIS or the like, but for an organized force, that's ridiculous.
> it has a good defense force (Israelis had great difficulties entering the strip in 2014)
A mere 67 soldiers died in a month and a half of operations… That's not what it likes to fight against a “good defense force”.
You're just being brainwashed by war propaganda.
Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree profoundly. You say that it wasn't a war because Israel didn't lose too many people? Perhaps the aggressor should have thought about that before starting a war. Israel put a lot of effort in defending itself, so your premise isn't even correct. It is a perverse rationalization that doesn't even warrant a serious response. Frame it as colonial as you wish, the fact is a systematic prosecution of Jews in alm…
> I disagree profoundly. You say that it wasn't a war because Israel didn't lose too many people? Perhaps the aggressor should have thought about that before starting a war. Its not a war, there is no state involved, just a terror group in Gaza, conveniently left in charge there, while curiously Tsahal is perfectly capable of shutting down any uprising in the territory they want to annex (the West bank), intriguing i…
Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not so simple. There is a layer of power between Israel and the children of Gaza Israel is not in control of (that's Hamas). It's also not about starving, nobody is starving, but for sure there are electricity blackouts, and a poor life quality in the strip. In fact Israel provides Gaza with food and electricity. And there are wealthy Gazans with super villas, luxurious cars and diamond covered iPhones (powerful…
> And Hamas is not harmless by any means. It has a big rocket arsenal, contacts with Iran, it has showed it can instigate civil unrest inside Israel, it kidnapped in the past civilians and soldiers, it has a good defense force (Israelis had great difficulties entering the strip in 2014), it launched tens of thousands of rockets and thousands of incendiary payloads causing life losses and fires, it has drones, earth t…
But logically this way of measuring harmfulness is idiotic. Hamas couldn't make more victims precisely because Israel had a lot of defensive and offensive systems to prevent that. All those systems are expensive financially, militarily, from a PR perspective, in term of personnel. It's like arguing guns are not dangerous since the usual targets wear a bulletproof vest anyway. A single Iron Dome counter missile costs 40000-100000 USD, for example. Hamas has tens of thousands of rockets which cost 1000 USD at best each.
Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would it? If the laser is able to focus on the rocket for multiple seconds. Then it'd just need to pack a fraction of that energy over a sustained duration. Which sounds reasonable.
The rocket is moving at perhaps mach 4+. The laser has to strike a singular spot. So holding focus for multuple seconds is an as-yet-unsolved problem. Of course, hitting an incoming missile at all is at the edge of current capability.
Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I disagree profoundly. You say that it wasn't a war because Israel didn't lose too many people? Perhaps the aggressor should have thought about that before starting a war. Its not a war, there is no state involved, just a terror group in Gaza, conveniently left in charge there, while curiously Tsahal is perfectly capable of shutting down any uprising in the territory they want to annex (the West bank), intriguing i…
I agree that settling in the west bank is illegal, but hearing excuses for the prosecution doesn't lead to any fruitful discussion. If you think it justified, why should the settlers see it differently? If you are incapable of self-reflection there is no road to any peace. And of course there were states involved...
Yet the current Israeli government wants his population to believe that they are still at war, still threatened but an outnumbering army of Arab people on the verge of slaughtering them all. It was the case for a good 40 years after the creation of Israel, but now it isn't.
But the military-industrial complex and the far-right extremists won too much from the situation to let it go. No wonder Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated…
The war is no more, but they want the citizens to feel as if it was still ongoing, as it is a great way to keep people under control, and to push their supremacist agenda. And leaving Hamas doing a bit of terror from time to time is a really efficient way to do so.
Re: Israel rolls out laser defense system
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And Hamas is not harmless by any means. It has a big rocket arsenal, contacts with Iran, it has showed it can instigate civil unrest inside Israel, it kidnapped in the past civilians and soldiers, it has a good defense force (Israelis had great difficulties entering the strip in 2014), it launched tens of thousands of rockets and thousands of incendiary payloads causing life losses and fires, it has drones, earth t…
I will gloss over the way you speak about Israeli losses. I am pretty sure you wouldn't speak like that ("only 13+67 dead, oh the pity!") if it were your country. But logically this way of measuring harmfulness is idiotic. Hamas couldn't make more victims precisely because Israel had a lot of defensive and offensive systems to prevent that. All those systems are expensive financially, militarily, from a PR perspectiv…
Of course I would! We (France) have lost more military than this (and a much much higher ratio among involved soldiers) in extra territorial operations in the past few years and we don't make a big deal about how powerful the African armed groups are… They aren't, the fight are almost always one-sided, but you can't wage war without losing men.
Dozens of soldiers dying is nothing when talking about countries doing large-scale military operations. Of course, at the individual level it means 80 individual tragedies, with children losing parents, parents losing children, wifes losing husbands and so on. But on the military level, it reveals a highly asymmetric fight where you didn't really encountered resistance. Really far from your “Hamas is a powerful military” propaganda.
> But logically this way of measuring harmfulness is idiotic
Not if you actually tried to understand my point. Which I would rephrase for you: Tsahal is so dominant in this conflict it could get rid of Hamas military capabilities forever, with ease. They could completely remove the threat they cause to Israel, like how the Fatah on the West Bank is completely helpless today. But they do not do that, and it's on purpose: to wage war, you need an opponent, and nobody neither in the military, nor in the far-right in charge in the government, wants to end up without an enemy.
The former because it would means budget cut (peacetime budget vs wartime budget), the later because they would have no scapegoat to justify their racist and expansionist policy.