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mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

joshhorne.com

101–110 of 192 posts

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#101
> mmWave radar used inside the cabin as a sensor to detect a child left behind in a hot car

Call me a cynic but since the power button stopped being a power button I have trust issues. In the end we'll have mmWave chips our company devices that can tell middle managers if we've been at our desk for all 28,800 seconds of the work day and exactly how hard we've been working, that's a more likely outcome than saving a kid in a hot car.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> leaking nude photos from someone's camera whatever happened to that meme about common ccd cameras picking up uv images that make out details through eg swimsuits, but hopefully filtered and removed in software before making it to the images?

I recall the panic over that back in in the day, IIRC it was near-visible infra-red, not UV - if you didn't have sufficient IR filtering over the sensor, were using flash (and the flash included a decent amount of IR), and the subject was wearing something thin, you'd potentially get unintended skin detail with the IR reflection. As I understand more or less a solved problem on modern cameras such as on your smartpho…

I still have a Sony CD camera (as in disk not ccd) which has near IR and a IR led. Fun to play with for night recording (its intended use) and you can see though thin clothes a tiny bit but range is very limited. Skin patterns much less due to lacking contrast. Resolution in that mode is also lacking so detail is not really a thing. I can understand the problem and I think that is the reason my IR camera in my laptop has a moire pattern in the hardware to make it almost useless to the common eye. But that last part is just a guess.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#103
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right on. The whole "mm wave radar is detail rich but gives privacy" line is a contradiction. Any data that is detailed enough to be useful is detailed enough to be a privacy concern. While it might not be the same as leaking nude photos from someone's camera, radar data is something that needs to be carefully thought out. Radar data from a car can provide information about people's driving behavior even without loca…

My main point is the data is anonymous at source. I think having control over how that data is correlated back to an individual is important

With decent processing a mm-wave picture would be good enough that you could recognise a person, so I don't think there is any inherent anonymity. The image resolution is a function of both wavelength and aperture and a mm-wave antenna can extend over a significant number of wavelengths (ie. large aperture). A stable timebase would further allow processing across time, enabling synthetic aperture.

Also, a person is not a randomly shaped object. If the processing is specifically tuned to detecting and identifying people an awful lot of degrees of freedom can be eliminated, giving more detail in those features that do identify a person.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#104
post #81

I have a theory / idea I call MOOP - massive open online psychology - the idea is that our phones / radar devices monitor our daily interactions - tone of voice, body gestures - to get a state of our anger / love / etc between our families (and work). And then uses simple epidemiology to help guide / train us. The basic idea is your phone becomes your life coach. This "privacy protecting" radar (which does not seem p…

Nbd, but moop means garbage at the burn. I agree this will happen, I suspect Apple is not only in the best position to exploit mmWave hardware but already well down the road in related interaction design. Apple Watch already offers limited physical sense-based life coaching in the form of hand washing duration tracking and feedback. Apple Watch’s assisted interaction with UI that quietly debuted in iOS 15 was an impo…

I assume moop is a slang term then? what's the burn?

And yes, I am sure many companies are thinking (or at least have people in them thinking like this). A few issues are the legal and cultural framework (I am quite happy for my personal data to be shared with accredited Health (ie NHS) researchers, but not with the Apple Watch product manager)

Epidemiology at this level is going to have transformative effects, but it needs to be trusted. I mean the only difference between a utopia of guided humans and a surveillance state is who gets the data and what they do with it. the people in the free country abs the ones in the oppressive totalitarian state will be wearing the same devices with the same radar.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#106
post #92

Privacy is a political/legal problem, not a technology problem.

A cryptopunk would say just the opposite: that privacy is a technical problem that, properly solved, alleviates us of political concerns. Both views seem to miss the mark. The crypto folks see mathematical certitude while ignoring the dynamics of the social/legal context in which it must operate. By contrast, those who argue that "artifacts don't have politics" would absolve technologists of an ethical duty to consid…

Right, and a standard response to cryptopunk fundamentalism is pointing at rubber-hose cryptoanalysis [1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-hose_cryptanalysis

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#107

> mmWave radar used inside the cabin as a sensor to detect a child left behind in a hot car Call me a cynic but since the power button stopped being a power button I have trust issues. In the end we'll have mmWave chips our company devices that can tell middle managers if we've been at our desk for all 28,800 seconds of the work day and exactly how hard we've been working, that's a more likely outcome than saving a k…

You could do that today with normal tech today. That's why you need laws in place that prohibit work place monitoring.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#109
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right on. The whole "mm wave radar is detail rich but gives privacy" line is a contradiction. Any data that is detailed enough to be useful is detailed enough to be a privacy concern. While it might not be the same as leaking nude photos from someone's camera, radar data is something that needs to be carefully thought out. Radar data from a car can provide information about people's driving behavior even without loca…

My main point is the data is anonymous at source. I think having control over how that data is correlated back to an individual is important

Wi-Fi light bulb won CES 2022 award, expected to ship in 4Q 2022. Logs of detailed human activity, in-room 3D location and timestamps can tell a story over time. https://us.sengled.com/blogs/news/the-biggest-ces-2022-smart...

> We earned this year’s award for a product targeted to launch in the fourth quarter: our Smart Health Monitoring Light. Featuring a Wi-Fi, Bluetooth Mesh dual chip, the bulb will provide a number of features, including biometric measurement tracking of heart rate, body temperature, and other vital signs, as well as sleep tracking. By connecting multiple bulbs via Bluetooth Mesh and creating a virtual map across your home, this product can even help detect human behavior and determine if someone has fallen and then send for help.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#110
> In October 2019, Soli shipped in the Pixel 4, marketed to consumers as "Motion Sense." It provided users with a faster face unlock along with some basic touchless gestures like controlling music. Google must have decided it was still too early as they haven’t included Soli in any of the Pixel phones since.

Wasn't the blocker regulations in India?

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