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Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#311

Post by CGamesPlay »

philsnow wrote: post #215

Not related to Google maps, but just today I got tired of the Amazon app sending me "you might like this deal" notifications and dug into whether it's possible to disable them. You can , but if you do, Amazon will no longer send Amazon "Smile" micro-donations to whatever charity you've selected: https://i.imgur.com/wNAkUAT.jpeg . I can't say that this is underhanded, but it does cast into sharp relief the fact that A…

I recently uninstalled Lyft for a similar reason. It wouldn’t stop sending me marketing push notifications, which couldn’t be disabled in the app. Since notifications are pretty integral to the core function of Lyft, I couldn’t turn them all off. So I uninstalled the app.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#312

Post by wildfire »

gerash wrote: post #212
bryceacc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that most definitely is the reason to ask for wifi scanning, but the point was reiterated many times in the post. This is about privacy AND the fact that GPS-only navigation works globally just fine. If the user wishes to have that improved cold start approximate location then sure, turn on wifi scanning. If they do not wish to give that up, they should still be able to navigate

So if an app knows your exact lat long after 30s of spending battery power there's no privacy issue but if it uses wifi SSIDs around you to do the job in 2s with less power it's a breach of privacy?

Why not let the user decide what their personal privacy trade-off is?

That is, fundamentally, what the original post is about.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#313

Post by scarface74 »

moritonal wrote: post #126
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free? Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps. You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of…

Yes you can use other mapping apps on iOS.

On the other hand, Google has often played hardball with manufacturers who wanted to include other location technology…

https://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-l...

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#314

Post by matt_heimer »

darkwizard42 wrote: post #218
matt_heimer wrote: post #211

Wifi? Ha! Google Maps has prompted me to turn on my camera for improved location accuracy a couple of times. And I'm not sure why switching map apps will really help long term. Can't Google just bake in WiFi WAR driving into the location services API?

FYI that uses their Live View to look at building and street view around you to better orient you. Kind of matches what you photo with what they know and orients you. Incredibly useful in places like Japan where you don’t have many readable street signs or dense urban canyons. It has nothing to do with some crazy nefarious google plot.

Do you know for sure that those pictures aren't uploaded to Google?

Maybe not nefarious but its crazy that my gps navigation app prompts me to start taking pictures while driving to improve accuracy.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#315

Post by SllX »

notacoward wrote: post #287
SllX wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever been sued over their SSID?

Yes. https://reason.com/volokh/2018/04/29/libel-by-wifi-network-n... Sure, it was defamation rather than copyright, but it certainly puts the lie to a certain other commenter who seems to think that if he personally can't find it on Google then it must not exist.

Well that was an entertaining read. It appears the answer thus far is “yes, at least once.”

Thanks!

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#316

Post by spacexsucks »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

This is google apologetic bs.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#317

Post by soulofmischief »

moritonal wrote: post #126
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free? Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps. You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of…

This encourages a classist system where the affluent get to keep their data private and the poor working class' data is open season for companies to exploit and use for oppressive purposes.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#318

Post by aceazzameen »

philsnow wrote: post #215

Not related to Google maps, but just today I got tired of the Amazon app sending me "you might like this deal" notifications and dug into whether it's possible to disable them. You can , but if you do, Amazon will no longer send Amazon "Smile" micro-donations to whatever charity you've selected: https://i.imgur.com/wNAkUAT.jpeg . I can't say that this is underhanded, but it does cast into sharp relief the fact that A…

Is uninstalling the app and using the website in a browser an option? This is what I prefer to do.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#319

Post by Dylan16807 »

gameman144 wrote: post #270
Dylan16807 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, how about a compromise. They can have my data but they have to pay minimum wage for it.

What even does "minimum wage" mean in this context? Like, all the time they possess it? The CPU time they spend on it? I'm not sure I understand the sense this makes.

For this situation, it's easy, it's the entire time I'm driving.

They'd never go anywhere near the idea so I don't feel too much pressure to nail down how it would work for non-real-time data.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#320

Post by unit_circle »

Try OSMAnd.

I started using it because it allows you to download huge areas as vector maps for offline use. But I find myself slowly using it more and more. The only things missing that keep me using gmaps are search, reviews / places, and directions that factor traffic (not a biggie tbh). However, I've been playing with mapbox and, without any prior experience whatsoever got a traffic overlay working within a few hours with a free account. I believe they provide the other parts (search, routing & places) too, I just need to figure out how to plumb them in.

I have tried a ton of map apps and IMO OSMAnd has all the pieces to be a serious competitior, at least for technical folks, with just a little bit of commercialization... The gmaps moat is not as deep or as wide as it seems.

If you are an OSMAnd dev reading this, I will happily pay a monthly fee for this stuff if provided as a cost plus package... I get a ton of value out of the app already, already pay for it and hate Google maps more with every passing day.

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