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Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#231

Post by jmkb »

app4soft wrote: post #181
LoveGracePeace wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OsmAnd+ has worked great for us for several years.

I use OsmAnd~ 4.0.x[0], F-Droid packges of OsmAnd+, under Android 5.x for three years already for bike journeys. Sadly, since OsmAnd+ 4.1.x it requires Android 6+ to work. Looking inside changelog of OsmAnd+ I really can't understand why Android 5.x support was dropped. Actually I can't decide where to move next after OsmAnd: Organic Maps[1], Pocket Maps[2] or something else. Also from-time-to-time tested Navit[3], b…

> Looking inside changelog of OsmAnd+ I really can't understand why Android 5.x support was dropped

It might have something to do with the requirements for the Android Auto integration, which was just added recently.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#232

Post by magicjosh »

michaelt wrote: post #195
dsl wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Wifi and cell tower location are much less precise than GPS. They are irrelevant for lane detection. Where they are useful is when you are indoors. Or when a tracking business wants an excuse to send your location to their servers.

Rando: "So what's your company do?"

Google employee: "I work at a tracking business"

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#233

Post by kelnos »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

> But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS.

Assuming that's true (I'm skeptical), there's no reason why it can't gracefully degrade without the added information.

Regardless, I'm not sure what you mean by lane-specific navigation. Yes, I've seen Google put up a little drawing of the multiple lanes, with the correct lanes for the next turn in bright white, and the incorrect lanes in grey, but that doesn't need to know what lane you're currently in, as it just highlights which lanes are correct and incorrect, regardless of where you are.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#235

Post by wavefunction »

abandonliberty wrote: post #230
philsnow wrote: post #215

Not related to Google maps, but just today I got tired of the Amazon app sending me "you might like this deal" notifications and dug into whether it's possible to disable them. You can , but if you do, Amazon will no longer send Amazon "Smile" micro-donations to whatever charity you've selected: https://i.imgur.com/wNAkUAT.jpeg . I can't say that this is underhanded, but it does cast into sharp relief the fact that A…

If it makes you feel any better, it's a publicly traded company. Legally, everything it does must generate shareholder value. Smile is really just a way to get additional value from donations large companies have to make anyway for lobbying and tax purposes. They would've happened anyway, but you get to direct it. Maybe they can sell the data it generates to identify areas or people more likely to donate to charity,…

>Legally, everything it does must generate shareholder value.

What's the basis for this claim?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#236

Post by kelnos »

jonas21 wrote: post #53

Are you sure they're not doing this to get approximate location for use with A-GPS? Sure, GPS will work without it, but your time to first fix is going to be much longer, and your phone will have no idea where you are while you're waiting for that fix. There's a good overview of A-GPS in module 5 here [1]. This is just how people expect GPS to work on modern mobile phones, to the point where they'd probably consider…

I thought AGPS was just the download of almanac/ephemeris data from a server on the internet. I didn't think it had anything to do with figuring out location using visible wifi APs or anything like that. Sure, you need an internet connection to download the AGPS data, but that could also be your cellular data connection and not wifi.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#237

Post by teirce »

wavefunction wrote: post #235
abandonliberty wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel any better, it's a publicly traded company. Legally, everything it does must generate shareholder value. Smile is really just a way to get additional value from donations large companies have to make anyway for lobbying and tax purposes. They would've happened anyway, but you get to direct it. Maybe they can sell the data it generates to identify areas or people more likely to donate to charity,…

>Legally, everything it does must generate shareholder value. What's the basis for this claim?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#238

Post by folmar »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

My 10 year old navigation device (WindowsCE-based) has no wifi nor celluar and lane specific navigation works fine. Also having lane specific navigation is not essential.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#239

Post by danielfoster »

wavefunction wrote: post #235
abandonliberty wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel any better, it's a publicly traded company. Legally, everything it does must generate shareholder value. Smile is really just a way to get additional value from donations large companies have to make anyway for lobbying and tax purposes. They would've happened anyway, but you get to direct it. Maybe they can sell the data it generates to identify areas or people more likely to donate to charity,…

>Legally, everything it does must generate shareholder value. What's the basis for this claim?

Corporate Law 101.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#240

Post by philsnow »

mhardcastle wrote: post #224
philsnow wrote: post #215

Not related to Google maps, but just today I got tired of the Amazon app sending me "you might like this deal" notifications and dug into whether it's possible to disable them. You can , but if you do, Amazon will no longer send Amazon "Smile" micro-donations to whatever charity you've selected: https://i.imgur.com/wNAkUAT.jpeg . I can't say that this is underhanded, but it does cast into sharp relief the fact that A…

Shopping at Amazon has become such a blatantly user-hostile experience. More than any company I've dealt with in recent memory, they seem to tolerate just about any unethical behavior - allowing fake product reviews, facilitating sale of counterfeit merchandise, and evidently withholding charitable donations if you don't allow them to pester you via your own device. It's to the point that shopping at Amazon feels dir…

Other online retailers (well, only the huge ones) seem to be stepping up their game and getting closer to Amazon's logistics and shipping ability.

It reminds me of how Netflix had more or less a monopoly on big-name video streaming for a ~decade but now every major rights holder seems to have either white-labeled somebody's tech or developed their own and are clawing back their IP to only show on their own platform[0].

Amazon had a long head start in online retail. It's true that they will probably never be surpassed in catalog depth ("the everything store") but I don't delve into the long tail of that depth very much and I'll be happy to move my retail spending elsewhere.

... well, now that I think on it, my only payment method on Amazon is my Amazon Visa, which gives me something like 5% cash back / equates to a 5% discount on everything I buy from Amazon. So any competitor is going to have that headwind to fight against as well.

[0] I wonder if this was a Netflix misstep: could they have prevented this by giving a greater share of the subscription revenue to the groups they licensed content from?

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