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Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

alexchesser.medium.com

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Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#291
Like most things in life, 90% of everything is crap. That goes double for recruiters. I've worked with only two competent recruiters in my very long career, who have, at most, gotten me a low double-digit raise at best. I've had one recruiter royally screw up an offer to the point the company rescinded, and I've had another recruiter use coercion on me to not work at SONY for 20% more than the other company was offering. But as only a single data point, I can quite emphatically say no recruiter has ever doubled my money for me.

I will also say that most recruiter outreach, even in this hot market, is absolutely lousy, and the compensation on offer is below what I am currently earning at a company I am exceptionally happy with doing work I love, and I don't consider myself to be overly compensated.

Most recruiters that do any outreach immediately ghost me when I ask about compensation range, and if compensation range is mentioned, it has yet to be more than what I currently make. Once or twice in the past three months I've had an "upto $X for the right candidate" where $X is only 10% more than what I am currently making, so it is highly unlikely I will get that upper bound.

If I responded to every recruiter that reached out to me via email and LinkedIn I'd spend many more hours per day wasting my time than I would care to think about. And most recruiters that reach out to me these days are of the exceptionally low quality churn'n'burn variety.

I currently have three recruiter messages open on LinkedIn, one for an animator with 2+ years of experience, another for someone wanting a mid-level front-end web developer for an AR application, and another for a "senior" Java programmer. I don't do any of those things, didn't even look at my profile or C.V. Just a scattershot approach, which you would think on LinkedIn, with its targetted InMails, it wouldn't be the case. But here we are.

Of the one recruiter out of the three who didn't immediately ghost when asked about compensation (always my first question), the upper bound is $80K below what I currently make, and again, I don't consider myself well compensated.

My recommendation is never waste your time with any recruiter, but if you must, expend it on those that actually work for the company they are hiring for.

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#293
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it by your confrontational response that their comment hooked you somewhat. I can assure you it's the truth, and though it may or may not have been relevant to you in a way that affected you emotionally, the words ring true in my experience. Those who can do the thing don't mince words about it, the ones who can't need to massage what they're saying a bit to not lay the bad news on you like a ton of bricks; it…

"Truth" and "rings true in your experience" aren't necessarily overlapping values. Sure, it's a confrontational response, because I've seen too many solid, empathetic, capable individuals run out of tech by toxic gatekeeping bullshit just like this . Then all I'm left to manage and work with are toxic, self-aggrandizing, "um akshually" engineers who rate appearing smarter than others over working well with others and…

What is the need to interject the word 'manage' in there? Is that a powermove?

edit: Have a great day, I'm going to let this one go. Things to do, code to write :)

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#294
I don't ignore them, I give their email or voice mail a quick perusal. Maybe 1 in 4 pass that I'll reach back out to them. Things I look for

1. did they name someone/some company that I know

2. Does it look like a form letter

3. Do they have a "give me all these details" section of the email on the 1st email. Instant trash can on that one.

4. Does it fall under the regime of things I do.

5. What email address alias/phone number did they have access to.

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#295

Bad career advice I received early in my career: Don't talk compensation until late in the interviewing process after you've already convinced them to hire you. Compensation is the first thing I bring up now. "I currently make X salary, Y annual bonus, and Z equity. This position will need to exceed all 3 by at least 20% before I even consider it. Does that sound doable? If not, let's not waste any more of each other…

If you're going to start with salary, at least don't tell them what you currently make, because that will instantly be their baseline. Just tell them what you desire and don't tell them that it is 20% or whatever more than what you currently make. But really you shouldn't start with giving a number. They already have a huge advantage because they negotiate salary all day and you do it once every few years. Just ask t…

Does the baseline matter though? If I’m not switching for less than 1.2x does it matter if they know what $current pay is? Either they can offer it or they can’t?

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many reasons. But after 10 years on the west coast, I had many dozens of friends but almost none that I wanted to spend holidays with (i.e. felt like family, neither friends nor partners). I decided that it wasn't for a lack of trying or giving it time. The west coast felt judgmental and divisive. I couldn't always express myself for fear of alienation. I do not have strong views and I (used to?) consider myself libe…

Not the person you are responding to - what about NYC made you get in touch with non-tech people that wasn't possible on the west coast? Is there something different about NYC's culture that helps in mingling with more people?

Hm.. It might be largely a numbers thing: higher density (more interactions), and more diversity. But can't ignore the general willingness to connect (ex: going to a bar solo in NYC yields me a lengthy convo 50% of the time, and I almost never initiate.).

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#297
In my view (your experience may differ): almost always ignore a recruiter, unless getting out of your current job situation is so urgent that you're willing to waste a ton of time, or the recruiter presents a very specific proposal that makes clear that they've done their homework meaning that you are a great fit for a unique opportunity.

In some cases going through a recruiter is a guarantee that you won't get a position, because a third-party recruiter tries to sell you to a company that has its own recruiters and is unwilling to pay the third-party recruiter's fee.

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#298

Bad career advice I received early in my career: Don't talk compensation until late in the interviewing process after you've already convinced them to hire you. Compensation is the first thing I bring up now. "I currently make X salary, Y annual bonus, and Z equity. This position will need to exceed all 3 by at least 20% before I even consider it. Does that sound doable? If not, let's not waste any more of each other…

Once you've reached a high salary, it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

If you talk comp early, you'll potentially (almost certainly) lowball yourself. If you don't, you'll spend a full time job's worth of time with hopeless positions.

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#299
Obviously this is geared towards software development, and my personal experience with recruiters for software jobs is similar to most here.

However, I sometimes help out my client's HR departments and the recruitment experience for other jobs is vastly different. Like searching for expert welders or other specific skillsets, not unlike the ones that exists in software development (+10 years java, +15 years embedded C, etc.). They almost always use external recruiters for the first filtering, and they deliver quality candidates. Expensive fees, but worth it.

Why is this such a problem with recruitment for software development? Are there recruitment shops that DO understand the differences in software development?

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have hard data to back that up or is it just anecdotal personal bristling whenever someone says "privilege"?

Real tech people don't blather. Yeah, I know, that's not "hard data". It's a pretty consistent pattern, though. Tech people have to be able to communicate with precision; they usually don't do "blowing smoke".

Not a recruiter, but this has been my experience too
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