Live data from Hacker News

Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

alexchesser.medium.com

121–130 of 633 posts

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#121
post #77

Add NYC to that list as well. There's no reason to move to either of those cities in 2022.

Oops, just moved to NYC last year! :)

Can you elaborate on reasons for the move? I am facing a similar realization regarding another one of your child comments about not clicking as much with west coast culture but am concerned about a drop in tech opportunities

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#122
post #99
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the career advice I would give, build good bridges and make friends with people. Everyone is moving around enough that you'll be able to cross into new companies and skip whole song and dance prior. You also get the benefit of having a heads up on the company you're joining too. I don't have a professional network per se, just a bunch of friends I clicked with at various companies. I know if they're enjoying s…

> I don't have a professional network per se, just a bunch of friends I clicked with at various companies. You might not want to label it as such, but that is exactly what a professional network is. People can genuinely be your friends and still be part of your network.

Hence the 'per se'. Some people go out of their way to groom a network of people specifically for their careers, I was just trying to articulate that difference.

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No" reason is probably an overstatement. But it's certainly a different lifestyle than e.g. living in a suburban / rural area and working remotely. Many of us would consider it a step backwards unless the net increase in income was life-changing.

Step backwards in take home pay and square footage. Step forwards in social life, romantic life, culture (if you weren't getting it elsewhere). If you're married with kids, NYC doesn't make sense. If you're single with passions outside work - it's great.

That's about how I figure it. Even if you try to split the difference by living in the suburbs of NYC, my impression is that housing is still pretty expensive and you have a time-consuming commute.

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#124
post #57
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former recruiter here. You are spot-on about referrals, and having an insider advocating for you or just their willingness to make the recommendation starts things off at a great spot. Here's where I disagree. You haven't doubled your salary BECAUSE of your policy of not working with recruiters, but rather DESPITE this policy. Deciding to disregard any recruiter opportunity is just shutting out quite a few things tha…

Deciding to disregard any recruiter opportunity is just shutting out quite a few things that you probably won't hear about otherwise and that policy is doing nothing to advance your position (career, earnings, etc.) Are readers supposed to read this as a suggestion that missing out is synonymous with losing out ? I kind of take exception to these phrases because it strips a lot of agency out of otherwise exceptional…

Sounds like just a general statement of opportunity cost. If you're disregarding all recruiters, and someone comes along with a possible job that fits with a $200k raise that you would normally disregard out of hand, and most of your average raises you find on your own are $50-75k when you switch jobs, spending time talking to the recruiter would likely be worth it.

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#125
post #76

You can get better data points from levels.fyi and teamblind

Those are great for larger companies but most smaller places won't have much listed there

I agree. Although as someone who has been burnt before, I would not consider the position from a small company unless its a very senior and generous offer.

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#127
post #97

Most of the recruiter traffic comes from LinkedIn, which is not particularly surprising. The very first line of my profile there reads: Please do not contact me about cryptocurrency, blockchain, NFTs, or associated technologies. Almost all recruiters who contact me on LinkedIn are talking about... cryptocurrency, blockchains, or NFTs etc. If a recruiter isn't prepared to read even the first line of my profile then I…

I have one line from 2017 about working on blockchain proposals. I never wrote any blockchain code. But it is half of my LinkedIn inbox.

I think it happens to me because I mention that I'm dabbling in rust in my profile, and I guess that's a keyword they scrape for.

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#128
post #57
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former recruiter here. You are spot-on about referrals, and having an insider advocating for you or just their willingness to make the recommendation starts things off at a great spot. Here's where I disagree. You haven't doubled your salary BECAUSE of your policy of not working with recruiters, but rather DESPITE this policy. Deciding to disregard any recruiter opportunity is just shutting out quite a few things tha…

Deciding to disregard any recruiter opportunity is just shutting out quite a few things that you probably won't hear about otherwise and that policy is doing nothing to advance your position (career, earnings, etc.) Are readers supposed to read this as a suggestion that missing out is synonymous with losing out ? I kind of take exception to these phrases because it strips a lot of agency out of otherwise exceptional…

I don't think missing out and losing out are synonymous. I'm simply stating that if you decide to ignore any subset of potential opportunities solely due to the source, you are limiting your exposure to possibilities.

For example, if you don't have a LinkedIn profile, you will probably get far less incoming inquiries from hiring entities (external/internal recruiters, hiring managers, etc.). That's a decision many people make.

Everyone has autonomy in who they interview with - I'm not sure where that comment is coming from.

This isn't about autonomy or interviews. It's about the ability to say "yes" or "no" to additional information about opportunities. Nothing more.

EDIT: To address the Great Resignation thing, agreed there as well. I'm a resume writer/career advisor now and my business has been brisk. Lots of clients are changing industries to find more impactful work, better working conditions, etc. Obviously if someone IS leaving the workforce they aren't calling me to write their resume, but I'm seeing a lot of activity from people looking to find work they "feel better" about in one way or another.

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#129

Strong disagree. I've made it my policy to never work with a recruiter that isn't affiliated with the company they're hiring for. Recruiting farms like Cyber Recruiters (yuck) will do everything in their power to waste your time out of sheer incompetence and disinterest. I've "doubled" my salary plenty of times through this policy. But the real secret sauce is referrals. Companies always prioritize a strong referral,…

Ah, but if someone doesn't have the secret sauce, are you then suggesting that person is doomed? Industry sanctioned nepotism doesn't feel like a good look for the SWE industry, especially given our diversity problems.

> Industry sanctioned nepotism doesn't feel like a good look for the SWE industry

Is it nepotism though? Your friends are not your family. Unless I'm missing some fine details of what nepotism means as a non native English speaker.

Besides, if you are a reliable employee, I doubt any reasonable company would miss out on an opportunity to consider a strong referral. Regardless of industry.

Re: Career advice nobody gave me: Never ignore a recruiter

#130

Strong disagree. I've made it my policy to never work with a recruiter that isn't affiliated with the company they're hiring for. Recruiting farms like Cyber Recruiters (yuck) will do everything in their power to waste your time out of sheer incompetence and disinterest. I've "doubled" my salary plenty of times through this policy. But the real secret sauce is referrals. Companies always prioritize a strong referral,…

My takeaway from the article wasn't to work with every recruiter that spams you (in the sense of actually spending time in their funnel), but rather, take the opportunity to "interview them" with a "standardized test" of sorts.

As the article said, most of the time, you're not actively job searching, but you generally do care about salary data points and what sort of roles are available. For unicorns, you can find salary info through levels.fyi, but for those not making those 300k+/yr, the pool of better paying jobs is much larger and recruiters still remain a useful source of data. Sniffing for roles is an underused technique. Recruiters have like 3 paragraphs to catch your attention, so they optimize for bang-for-the-buck. Which means they aren't going to offer EM roles if you don't already hold that title, even if the company has an opening. A lot of times, if your next career ladder rung is a title upgrade or a role pivot, you need to ask explicitly.

As for your policy, I feel like it's attributing all your chips into one thing while ignoring everything else you've done. Like many here, I've had my share of salary bumps over the course of my career, and each time it was through different methods (diagonal internal move, OSS lead, unicorn recruitment, promotions). It'd be naive to not have more than one tool in the arsenal.

Post reply on HN