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Austrian DPA Ruling Against Google Paves the Way to EU-Based Cloud Services

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Re: Austrian DPA Ruling Against Google Paves the Way to EU-Based Cloud Services

#91

Post by baxtr »

sirwitti wrote: post #3

This is already affecting websites and web apps. At least all of our customers are moving away from Google Analytics and many try to also get rid of other Google services like fonts and maps. I'm very interested to see what this changes in other european countries.

I really don't understand the problem with Google analytics. Anyone who is able to explain that in easy terms?

So they are collecting data about me to show me better ads. Isn't that what I want? They compare my data to a collection ("look-a-likes") of others that match my data fingerprint. What's wrong with that?

The way I understand it nobody is interested in me as a person (which is a bit sad, but that's a different story...).

Re: Austrian DPA Ruling Against Google Paves the Way to EU-Based Cloud Services

#92

Post by kazen44 »

danhor wrote: post #56
yohannparis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that section 702 is a bit extreme. But, at the heart of it, it makes sense. If foreigners can use services in your jurisdiction, you want to see what they do for security purposes. Nonetheless, it's against the belief of "innocent until proven guilty."

This assumption leads to the conclusion that only services that reside in the same jurisdiction (EU, USA, ...) can be used if legal protection from the state is desired. If legal protection from the state is enforced (even for other states) this means there need to be wholly separate services in each jurisdiction. This seems very undesirable, especially for the US with it's multinational web companies.

> This assumption leads to the conclusion that only services that reside in the same jurisdiction (EU, USA, ...) can be used if legal protection from the state is desired.

which is the correct conclusion? As the state can only offer legal protection under its own jurisdiction.

Sure, real life complicates things a bit. (mainly, the jurisdiction of the EU as an institution in and of itself compared to its member states is a messy affair) but it is still a totally valid argument none the less.

Re: Austrian DPA Ruling Against Google Paves the Way to EU-Based Cloud Services

#93

Post by nisegami »

zxienin wrote: post #80
Kbelicius wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that this ruling is based on schrems II case which concluded that FISA 702 and EO 12.333 are not compatible with GDPR it would seem that holding data within the EU is not a solution since FISA 702 and EO 12.333 are applicable to data held anywhere in the world by a US company.

Am not legally savvy on this to be educated on merits of what cited FISA/EO mean. I am curious as to what argument can find it acceptable to block US company, also when they place data within EU and can’t be compelled to handover to US law enforcement.

>can’t be compelled to handover to US law enforcement

Even if a US company holds their data in the EU, due to FISA 702, the CLOUD act and EO 12.333, they can still be compelled to hand over that data. So being a US company is a dealbreaker, regardless of where the data is stored.

Re: Austrian DPA Ruling Against Google Paves the Way to EU-Based Cloud Services

#94

Post by DavideNL »

rpadovani wrote: post #16
jacquesm wrote: post #10

If there is ever going to be an EU version of a GoFundMe for a statue for Schrems I'm in. It's one thing to have good privacy laws, it's quite another to get them enforced. As public service comes this a fantastic job for all of us.

You should support Noyb then, the no-profit he works for! https://noyb.eu/en I am not affiliated, but I am a massive supporter of them and is one of the donations I am happier to give

Agreed.

Am a supporter too, as a matter of fact it's the only recurring donation payment i have...

Re: Austrian DPA Ruling Against Google Paves the Way to EU-Based Cloud Services

#95

Post by kazen44 »

pimterry wrote: post #21
wbl wrote: post #4

EU based cloud services always could compete before. Now they will compete on the basis of being in the EU instead of being better.

Interestingly, it's not actually about being in the EU specifically, it's just about being in a jurisdiction with equivalent data protections. It's not a "must be EU" cloud requirement, it's a "must not be USA" requirement. Canada, Brazil, Japan, India, and many other non-EU countries have GDPR-like data protection regulation that would be totally acceptable I think (IANAL). The core problem is USA specific - either…

and this is exactly what makes the EU a player in geopolitics.

This kind of soft power even has a name, the brussels effect[0]

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Re: Austrian DPA Ruling Against Google Paves the Way to EU-Based Cloud Services

#96

Post by BjoernKW »

I keep hearing that claim, yet it is never backed up by any substantive evidence or actionable advice as to which of these apparently abundant exclusively EU-based services to use for solving a particular problem.

Well, other than the usual Fathom and Plausible, that is. It might come as a surprise to some, but the web and software in general isn't just comprised of analytics.

Just to try and prove myself wrong I searched for a GDPR-compliant EU-based video conferencing tool on that "developed in Europe" site linked to in the article. The only result I got was "api.video - Video APIs for building, scaling and operating on-demand and live streaming videos".

So, because of GDPR I'm now supposed to code and run my own video conferencing service?

Re: Austrian DPA Ruling Against Google Paves the Way to EU-Based Cloud Services

#97

Post by kazen44 »

olivierduval wrote: post #25

Actually, there's an "easy" way out for Google & Co: set up a EU subsidiary and allow them to run autonomously. Il will be subject ONLY to EU laws, on EU servers... but with US technology... and money (ONLY and not datas) will flow back to the US ! As a side effect: Google.EU will be able to use the "full" power allowed by GDPR (european data & world data) as Google.WORLD will "only" be able to use world data excludi…

this would not work, as it would still fall under the FISA jurisdiction according to US law.

Re: Austrian DPA Ruling Against Google Paves the Way to EU-Based Cloud Services

#98

Post by the-dude »

IgorPartola wrote: post #82
the-dude wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty? Or a handful?

Every restaurant, every taxi, every plumber you have ever interacted with did not make their money by selling your personal information. They did it by providing value in exchange for a fee. Google and Facebook are the exception to the rule. Sure in the category of free and very popular social networks and search engines this may be the norm, but that category consists of less than a dozen companies.

> Every restaurant, every taxi, every plumber

Sure, except they don't find an advantage in the restriction.

They are not cloudy. A dark kitchen OTOH ...

Re: Austrian DPA Ruling Against Google Paves the Way to EU-Based Cloud Services

#99

Post by thedevelopnik »

closewith wrote: post #69
technion wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analytics and fonts shouldn't be too hard. What about Captcha?

Google Analytics is very hard to replace, because the real value to businesses is in the integrations with Google Ads and Search Console. There's no viable alternative to Google's advertising networks at the minute.

This. We use a non-Google analytics product that we could even move to self-hosting if needed. But the marketing director basically was like “This is better than GA, and I will use it for almost everything, but we have to have GA also because it shows as conversions.”

Re: Austrian DPA Ruling Against Google Paves the Way to EU-Based Cloud Services

#100

Post by ATsch »

baxtr wrote: post #91
sirwitti wrote: post #3

This is already affecting websites and web apps. At least all of our customers are moving away from Google Analytics and many try to also get rid of other Google services like fonts and maps. I'm very interested to see what this changes in other european countries.

I really don't understand the problem with Google analytics. Anyone who is able to explain that in easy terms? So they are collecting data about me to show me better ads. Isn't that what I want? They compare my data to a collection ("look-a-likes") of others that match my data fingerprint. What's wrong with that? The way I understand it nobody is interested in me as a person (which is a bit sad, but that's a differen…

The problem is not that it is possible but that it is done without consent or oversight.
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