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Improving MIT’s written commitment to freedom of expression

freespeech.mit.edu

21–30 of 194 posts

Re: Improving MIT’s written commitment to freedom of expression

#21
Is this really needed? I'm not trying to be obstinate. But in the north european country where I reside, while we have hate speech laws etc., my speech is protected by the law - both from the state and my employer (a university).

This commitment seems very bombastic for what feels like a work environment policy to me. Am I misunderstanding something cultural here?

EDIT: thx for the comments, it makes it more sense to me now.

Re: Improving MIT’s written commitment to freedom of expression

#22
post #3

Meanwhile, the University of California seems to have implemented a DEI litmus test on all applications for faculty positions and promotion. Does anyone know if this is actually true? Is this reasonable? https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2020/01/wokeademia.html?m...

How can it not be true? Berkely posts a detailed rubric for grading DEI statements on their own website, for all to see: https://ofew.berkeley.edu/recruitment/contributions-diversit...

It is clear that they won’t hire anyone who doesn’t express beliefs identical to their own.

Re: Improving MIT’s written commitment to freedom of expression

#23
post #3

Meanwhile, the University of California seems to have implemented a DEI litmus test on all applications for faculty positions and promotion. Does anyone know if this is actually true? Is this reasonable? https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2020/01/wokeademia.html?m...

Damn, this is actually a lot worse than it sounds. Rather than requiring an arguably hollow oath like the infamous UC loyalty oath from the 50s, they actually grade each applicant against “DEI” rubrics and eliminate applicants based on that. You don’t get a job without demonstrating tangible contributions to DEI in the past (no, treating everyone equally doesn’t count) and plans to promote it in the future. According to UC Davis math chair Abigail Thompson:[0]

> Nearly all University of California campuses require that job applicants submit a “contributions to diversity” statement as a part of their application. The campuses evaluate such statements using rubrics, a detailed scoring system. Several UC programs have used these diversity statements to screen out candidates early in the search process.

> A typical rubric from UC Berkeley[1] specifies that a statement that “describes only activities that are already the expectation of Berkeley faculty (mentoring, treating all students the same regardless of background, etc)” (italics mine) merits a score of 1–2 out of a possible 5 (1 worst and 5 best) in the second section of the rubric, the “track record for advancing diversity” category.

> The diversity “score” is becoming central in the hiring process. Hiring committees are being urged to start the review process by using officially provided rubrics to score the required diversity statements and to eliminate applicants who don’t achieve a scoring cut-off.

[0] https://www.ams.org/journals/notices/201911/rnoti-p1778.pdf

[1] https://ofew.berkeley.edu/recruitment/contributions-diversit...

Glad I’m no longer in the academic job market…

Edit: And I wonder if and when these will start to appear in PhD applications, as PhD students are employees in a sense and often need to teach, too.

Re: Improving MIT’s written commitment to freedom of expression

#24
post #11
post #2

I love the explicitness of “they may not obstruct or otherwise interfere with the freedom of others to express views they reject or even loathe.”

However, they negate it with this caveat: > "The Institute may restrict expression that violates the law, that falsely defames a specific individual, that constitutes a genuine threat or harassment, that unjustifiably invades substantial privacy or confidentiality interests, or that is otherwise directly incompatible with the functioning of the Institute." Which is vague enough that an enterprising and determined ind…

No declaration, code or whatnot stands alone. We can always loophole or interpret our way around constitutions and things. Look at religion. Even an absolute, no exception statement doesn't guarantee anything absolutely. It needs more. Culture, history, a base of support, etc.

That said, declarations can be meaningful within a greater overall context.

Re: Improving MIT’s written commitment to freedom of expression

#25
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a side note. The link to this post was flagged after being submitted to HN yesterday within a very short time frame. You might want to consider your karma points and preemptively remove it and pay your dues to the community by apologizing for not adhering to group speak. I very much stand on the left side of the political spectrum, while the linked blogpost clearly comes from the liberal to right spectrum. Bu…

I think you're mistaking groupthink for people who are simply tired of seeing the same old culture war debate on HN repeated over and over again. Plenty HN discussions about exactly this subject in the past have shown that: 1. Unlike some subjects, HN commenters have widely differing opinions here. The free speech hardliners and the anti disinformation/bigotry/*ism hardliners are both well represented, and many on bo…

On #2,

I dont engage with others really to change the mind of the person I am engaging with. That is much to hard and a high bar.

No, I engage to ensure there is a dissenting view point read by observers to the debate, those people I can sway with my arguments, the people that simply read HN never commenting themselves. That is my target.

I want to ensure HN is not just an echo chamber of one political ideological take on a political topic

>>I bet comparably inflammatory articles from the woke side of the debate are flagged equally much.

That has not been my observation. HN is less Echo chambery than say Reddits political subs but there is still a clear political bent here

Re: Improving MIT’s written commitment to freedom of expression

#26
post #11
post #2

I love the explicitness of “they may not obstruct or otherwise interfere with the freedom of others to express views they reject or even loathe.”

However, they negate it with this caveat: > "The Institute may restrict expression that violates the law, that falsely defames a specific individual, that constitutes a genuine threat or harassment, that unjustifiably invades substantial privacy or confidentiality interests, or that is otherwise directly incompatible with the functioning of the Institute." Which is vague enough that an enterprising and determined ind…

At some point there has to be trust in people to be reasonable in their interpretation. If that trust isn't possible, the only available strategy is to try and purge the entire administrative apparatus and replace it rather than attempting to play word games. Word games are there to be lost.

This statement is pretty clear that the intent is to allow speech that some people find offensive.

Re: Improving MIT’s written commitment to freedom of expression

#27
post #11
post #2

I love the explicitness of “they may not obstruct or otherwise interfere with the freedom of others to express views they reject or even loathe.”

However, they negate it with this caveat: > "The Institute may restrict expression that violates the law, that falsely defames a specific individual, that constitutes a genuine threat or harassment, that unjustifiably invades substantial privacy or confidentiality interests, or that is otherwise directly incompatible with the functioning of the Institute." Which is vague enough that an enterprising and determined ind…

I think it is mostly a reasonable constraint. But I think it needs to be said that it is prudent to err on the side of freedom. Not prosecution of twitter comments and youtube videos. Everyone that was part of that should be deeply ashamed.

In my (backward) country a disturbance of the public order is illegal. Some old vices are hard to get rid off.

Re: Improving MIT’s written commitment to freedom of expression

#28
Promotion and making venues available are unaddressed issues here. The power of the institution is not just that of 'hard' censorship but of the 'soft' censorship we experience so often in the online tech world. Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one.

Re: Improving MIT’s written commitment to freedom of expression

#29
Some speech issues that come to mind which, I sometimes wonder, how they would have gone down today:

* The 6.001 porn

* The ghetto party

* The Reg Day porn (particularly Deep Throat, but many)

* The Visualizing Cultures display (with CSSA opposition)

* Some 10% of the day to day traffic on senior-house@, bexley-minus-fascists@, and ec-discuss@

Norms around speech have evolved a lot even as the fundamentals of ethics and laws on the electronic frontier have stayed the same. I often think that folks in the 80s and 90s enjoyed, for better or worse, considerable latitude in their speech which wouldn't fly today.

Re: Improving MIT’s written commitment to freedom of expression

#30
We have reached a point where it has been a mainstream position to view the idea of defending free speech as disagreeable, or even deeply offensive. This statement is so weak that it is necessary to consider this climate to even understand how this can be published as a statement.

After explicitly saying that illegal speech is not free speech, it lists 6 exceptions for things that are not free speech either, including speech "that is otherwise directly incompatible with the functioning of the Institute". Which is even written twice, while being clearly a catch-all. And it mentions "In addition, MIT may reasonably regulate the time, place, and manner of expression to ensure that it does not disrupt the ordinary activities of the Institute." Why not have "free speech safe spaces", which would be small individual-sized sound-proof rooms where you are allowed to say what you think? If you also pad the walls, you could find many uses for these rooms.

With principles so weakly held, why have principles at all?

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