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468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

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Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#51

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here.

For me the biggest advantage is the relative equality. Not that there are no billionaires but if I go to a restaurant I don't have to feel bad for the waiter because they are getting a fair salary not that much lower than mine. And they don't have to feel super envious of my tech salary. And it's nice that if something bad happens to them (or me!) they will be taken care of - with healthcare or social housing as needed.

From over here, US seems constantly at an edge of civil war/revolution. Lots of desperate people that jump at the first opportunity to riot and loot stuff.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who wants to live in Graz?

There have been a few high profile security papers come from Graz university of technology and they seem to want to invest in the city as a security hub. https://cybersecurity-campus.tugraz.at

>There have been a few high profile security papers come from Graz university of technology and they seem to want to invest in the city as a security hub.

Graz is an amazing city for quality of life, nature and socializing, and is great if you want to be employed in academia your whole life. On the IT careers side, it's a wasteland of conservative hardware/automotive companies and IT service companies(cost centers) that only deal with the local market, or at best the DACH zone, and is therefore worse on pay than some Eastern European cities that deal with the international scene (Krakow, Warsaw, Bucharest, Cluj). Almost no product based IT companies who deal internationally.

Most tech jobs in Austria are where the money and infrastructure is, Vienna.

>a security hub https://cybersecurity-campus.tugraz.at

Outside of a handful of low-paid TU students and post-docs(basically academia), I think I can count the number of people employed there, on the fingers of my hand. AFAIK they aren't hiring anyone at the moment. Other of massive PR, no job openings, no investments, no tech companies and nothing significant materialized from that, just a few partnerships for PhD/research positions. Hardly a "security hub". A hub would mean you have a cluster of multiple private companies hiring people there to work on commercial solutions alongside research partnerships with universities. That's not what's happened.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#53

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here.

If you're European, it seems like your best bet, if you can pull it off, is to: * get your nice free college in Europe * go make a mountain of cash in California * come back and retire in your 30's and start a family. but that depends on a lot of things going right. I'd rather raise a family in most of Europe, and retire in Europe. But I can't deny that if I'd stayed in California I'd probably have $1-2 million more.…

> Germany allows about 12k per year in capital gains tax-free if I recall.

It's 801€ per year, but you can deduct losses up to 20k.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

with a lot of people in tech eyeing to move the opposite direction what made you come to Europe?

I was sick of my boss expecting me to read emails on the weekend, I already spent all my vacation time in Europe anyway (mostly DE/AT), and I couldn't stand the short vacations. My wife only got 1 week off a year. At the time, it was much more affordable too - 800 euro a month to rent in the middle of a capital city and live car free. Sadly costs have risen dramatically. It was meant to be a 6-12 month stay on a work…

>800 euro a month to rent in the middle of a capital city

Yeah, those days are mostly gone. The real estate market is crazy now in most of the western/northern EU.

The market dipped slightly during the first lockdowns of 2020 but bounced right back up quickly and came back with a vengeance.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#55
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such an absurd view. If they did illegal things they would not be able to operate in EU. While some expectations of what is considered acceptable or not have changed in Europe in meanwhile, it doesn't mean they were illegal in the first place. The second point you make is a true problem, the market is fragmented by too many regulations so the cost of establishing a company to the full EU is much greater than…

> If they did illegal things they would not be able to operate in EU The arm of the law might not catch everything, and when it does work, sometimes it works slowly. Companies like Uber and AirBnb got ahead by skirting the law, and had to change their products in some European countries (like Spain) because lawmakers eventually saw what they were doing. AirBnb are now required to ask for tax ID, and Uber had add arti…

There is very clear distinction on something being illegal and something being not defined by law. AirBnB case, at least from what I know on most of countries, the law did not forbid this type activity and yes leaving your house for a couple of days to someone you know for a small recompense was already in use. It didn't make sense to regulate it by law before because it was rare enough. When AirBnB made it usable for the mases then the regulations started to comeup because in that case it started to become a real business. This does not mean it was Illegal before. it was just undefined. The same for example with the data Privacy laws, GDPR etc. these are regulations that have come up as a response to undefined behavior not as a response to illegal behavior.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Finland you can get an amount equal to basic unemployment benefits to start a business for a year. You can get last resort social benefits basically forever if you aren’t actively working much or don’t run a business.

That's really interesting. I'm naturalised now and we've considered moving to Finland because Ireland's schools seem inferior. among other reasons. One problem is that we've heard it's very hard to make friends, would you say that's true? We've been lucky to build a great friend network here. Incidentally I bought a Muurikka from a Finnish friend last summer and it's the most amazing thing I've ever cooked with. I do…

> One problem is that we've heard it's very hard to make friends, would you say that's true?

That's true in all of the Nordics but I believe specially more in Finland.

I'm a naturalised Swede and had to put a lot of effort into making friends the first couple of years here. Yes, making friends is much harder than in my original culture (Brazil) but there is also the counter-side to it on the quality of friendships you make that I believe it's worth to take into account.

Making friends here is really about bonding and creating deep connections with someone else, not just a cursory acquaintance to go out to bars and do things together. In that sense I do understand completely why people are generally more reserved into expanding their social circles, it takes a lot of effort and a genuine interest in each other to foster a friendship and locals/natives already come with their own social groups from just living here their whole lives.

Cracking into these social circles is definitely hard, you will need to find hobbies and activities where you can meet people around a shared interest and usually expand from there, you won't be making friends by simply going to bars, for example.

And that's also the isolating part of Nordic cultures, you keep social circles smaller because they are more meaningful but getting started into a meaningful relationship takes time and will make you feel lonely.

People are also wary of mixing/mingling social groups as they'll feel responsible for the experience the groups have (at least here in Sweden), it's uncommon for someone to invite their different social circles into the same gathering, except maybe for birthdays.

Overall I've adapted quite well and I'm very happy with the friends I made, it is more demanding but extremely rewarding.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#57
post #9

The problem Europe has isn't that they lack money, the problem is that all the things US tech companies do to get ahead are illegal in Europe. Out of FAANG, European regulators are decidedly against the F/G and probably have reservations about at least one of the As. I wouldn't feel off guard if it turns out Netflix were impractical in the EU due to challenges both regulatory and linguistic.

The Collisons don't seem to be breaking any laws, yet they started Stripe in California, not Ireland.

It's complicated but I do feel like, at least comparing Ireland and California, there's a lot of tall-poppy syndrome going on. I told some Irish friends I wanted to build my own house and they thought I was crazy and said it was a terrible idea. I told some Californian friends* and they thought it was awesome and wanted to come help build it.

Learned helplessness is bad enough but we're outright _teaching_ helplessness to young people.

*disclaimer: they live in Oregon now

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#58
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they did illegal things they would not be able to operate in EU The arm of the law might not catch everything, and when it does work, sometimes it works slowly. Companies like Uber and AirBnb got ahead by skirting the law, and had to change their products in some European countries (like Spain) because lawmakers eventually saw what they were doing. AirBnb are now required to ask for tax ID, and Uber had add arti…

There is very clear distinction on something being illegal and something being not defined by law. AirBnB case, at least from what I know on most of countries, the law did not forbid this type activity and yes leaving your house for a couple of days to someone you know for a small recompense was already in use. It didn't make sense to regulate it by law before because it was rare enough. When AirBnB made it usable fo…

It's true that laws around leaving your house for a couple of days and renting out temporary didn't require you to setup a business and have a tax ID at hand. It still required paying taxes though, which many avoided.

But that was not the only use of AirBnb, tons of properties were bought and used only for driving what essentially is a hotel in those properties, without registering with the proper entity and paying the appropriate amount of taxes. This was not legal, and never was, as hotels need to have a license, yet AirBnb allowed those entities to continue running on the website until the courts got involved. If that's not skirting the law, I don't know what is.

Now of course, AirBnb requires its users to specify their tax ID before they can let out their places on AirBnb, as the law (already existing since before AirBnb) requires.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#59

Great news - I am biased because I moved to Europe from Northern California and might be looking for post-hoc justification for giving up millions of USD over the course of my career but I really think that Europe has a lot to offer. With public healthcare, good social services, reduced transit cost, etc. a bootstrapper can have a MUCH longer runway here - almost indefinite, if you get your expenses lower than Jobsee…

Job seekers allowance is not meant to support immigrants forever without actually seeking a job. That's abusing the system, especially if you're from a wealthy country and never paid into the system in the first place.

Fortunately my example was hypothetical, and I don't expect to avail of this option myself. Plenty of my Irish friends were pretty cool with being on JSA and not trying _too_ hard to find a job.

Growing up abroad and moving to a country in your thirties means you draw rather little benefit but pay in to the system massively. Because of Ireland's _extremely_ progressive/redistributive tax system, I have already paid more in to the system than a median earner here will in their entire career. Which is fine, that's the deal I signed up for, but I hardly think if I found myself on JSA for a while and noodled on a side project it makes me a leech.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#60
post #9

The problem Europe has isn't that they lack money, the problem is that all the things US tech companies do to get ahead are illegal in Europe. Out of FAANG, European regulators are decidedly against the F/G and probably have reservations about at least one of the As. I wouldn't feel off guard if it turns out Netflix were impractical in the EU due to challenges both regulatory and linguistic.

The Collisons don't seem to be breaking any laws, yet they started Stripe in California, not Ireland. It's complicated but I do feel like, at least comparing Ireland and California, there's a lot of tall-poppy syndrome going on. I told some Irish friends I wanted to build my own house and they thought I was crazy and said it was a terrible idea. I told some Californian friends* and they thought it was awesome and wan…

For real, the feeling that "you can do it" is probably 80% of it

And I'll give it to you that the Irish are one of the least DIY people around Europe.

(though I can totally understand being enthusiastic about building a house in California weather vs. Irish)

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