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The rising human cost of sports betting

nytimes.com

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Re: The rising human cost of sports betting

#211

Post by nemo44x »

thebean11 wrote: post #129
PKop wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>was never Not true and there are many in this thread and elsewhere for years on the internet saying exactly this. Thank you for conceding my point against the ridiculous argument that "prohibition is ineffective"... that no it is, it's only a matter of degree of punishment, which is what I said. >more suffering than it prevents This only matters in some utilitarian conception where all net suffering or utility or wh…

> Thank you for conceding my point against the ridiculous argument that "prohibition is ineffective" It depends what you mean by effective and ineffective. Nuking San Fransisco would prevent tons of drug use, but is not an effective way of solving society's ills. > This only matters in some utilitarian conception where all net suffering or utility or whatever is created equal. Drug laws not only hurt drug users, but…

> I wonder what you think of other countries which have much lower rates of drug abuse yet don't impose punishments as harsh as the US?

It’s because their currencies aren’t as powerful. Drugs are a commodity sold in USD like oil. The USA has the easiest access to USD so drugs come here as the product-market fit is optimal for both distributors and users.

Re: The rising human cost of sports betting

#212

Post by NoPicklez »

Here in Australia we have some very aggressive sporting companies, which very much to try to play it into the culture of our sports.

Watching our biggest sporting event last year the AFL Grand Final, during each ad break there was a live update of the betting odds. In addition, to the sponsorship of the betting companies around the stadium.

Re: The rising human cost of sports betting

#213

Post by nemo44x »

rjzzleep wrote: post #125
animal_spirits wrote: post #8

Promotion of gambling should be likened to promotion of cigarettes. It should be illegal to advertise gambling, but I don't think it should be outlawed to gamble. People should be able to choose how they live their lives, but we should do all that we can to prevent mass manipulation through adverts in industries that are known to be harmful. I also think that alcohol and e-cig advertising should be outlawed as well.

Every movie, series or other thing where people grab the bottle to handle their heartache, happiness or socializing is an advertisement that you should drink. It's going to need a huge transformation in society to change those advertising channels. Just like the movie cig industry was a long term process.

So you’re saying artists should be regulated on their expression of the human condition? Are people so dumb that they see a movie and think “oh I should drink to handle stress”? Or is it because it works short term?

Re: The rising human cost of sports betting

#214

Post by sjtindell »

recursive wrote: post #151
sjtindell wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Predatory tactics, facilitating addiction, not good. But what you’re saying feels to me like a rule that says you aren’t allowed to play betting games unless you take every single bet. What? Consider that for yourself. Every person on the street who walks up to you and says “I bet you that…”, you are required to take that bet? Or you’re never allowed to make a bet again? We as people pick and choose what bets we take…

The house already provides a list of which bets players can make, and what the odds are.

True, but aren’t you allowed some discretion. Let’s say one person who walks up to you is well dressed and well respected, and the next person is an obvious crackhead with a history of defaulting on friendly bets. I’m not allowed discretion to take one of these bets and not the other? Who is making the bet matters to me, as it would to a casino. Legally I think we should be able to have discretion there. But I hate defending something like a casino. It’s shady behavior in some way.

Re: The rising human cost of sports betting

#215

Post by nhoughto »

slap_shot wrote: post #46

I'm pretty Laissez-Faire about things, but a recent interaction with gambling is making me reconsider: My friend got a lot of free credits from the major sports books and wrote some code that he felt could generate a profit. We all threw in a little bit of money and let the program do what it does. Within a month we started doing 1k a day in profit on 3k wagered. Right as we approached 30k in profit, every major book…

Yep, few friends gone through the same thing. Seems like a coder-finding-betting rite of passage, 'oh right i can automate this process and earn whilst I sleep!'

Nope, bookies only want to keep profitable customers, or provide some other upside to them. In the context of bookies they have limited other ways to make money but sometimes their are weird edges that pop-up, like legislated restrictions.

In Australia those running the licensed tote (totaliser) market pools on horse racing can't make the market themselves, they can't legally seed a pool, and since a tote win is a portion of the pool total customers are less inclined to bet on a low value pool, so the markets allow a few high value bettors to seed the pool for them (with generous rakebacks) which they make a net loss on, but has overall positive effect on their business.

Re: The rising human cost of sports betting

#216

Post by User23 »

vgeek wrote: post #115
babypuncher wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that should be illegal. If we are going to allow casinos to operate at all, then we shouldn't allow them to discriminate against potential customers on the basis that said customers are better at the game. If that means their business model is no longer viable, then that is their problem.

This type of thing isn't exclusive to sports betting, either. Card counting isn't cheating, but is typically prohibited (when executed successfully) in most casinos due to the edge it gives players (which has been practically eliminated with shift to 7 decks, autoshufflers, etc.). When players figure out other edges, such as imperfections in the playing card printing process that gives them an edge in games like bacc…

Most strip casinos don't care at all about individual counters. They will cool you though if they see you wonging or other evidence of team play. But an individual? They really don't care. I've counted playing two hands and swinging my bets by a factor of 8 at the Bellagio. I might has well have been wearing a hat that said "Make Counting Great Again" I was so obvious. And the pit boss only asked if I'd like something nicer to drink than the well stuff and my host took very good care of me on the back end. Incidentally I didn't really win much, but that's not why I play. I like the dopamine hit from the risk, I like the sociality of table games, and I like having my host pay for the entire trip thanks to my play. It would make a terrible career, but for a weekend's entertainment it nets out to being a pretty good deal.

Interestingly, if the player doesn't maintain a proper betting strategy, he will have a considerable risk of ruin even in a player advantaged game. In a game with a 10% player edge, 28% of players managed to go bust[1]. Given the large number of rounds of betting for blackjack, without a good betting strategy, even players that count their way to a 2-3% edge are probably still going to make the casino money.

The downtown Casinos are much more uptight about advantage play, but I think that's because a lot of the pit bosses are old school and they just hate the idea of a player supposedly putting one over on them.

[1] https://neilhacker.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/kelly-criteri...

Re: The rising human cost of sports betting

#218

Post by lapetitejort »

allturtles wrote: post #88
jaywalk wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think sports gambling is not inevitable? Because until relatively recently, it was illegal in the US outside of Vegas and it still very much happened. Whether it was a local bookie or offshore betting websites, anybody that wanted to gamble already was. The only difference is that none of it was taxed.

But with ease of use and advertisements, you can dramatically grow the set of people who want to gamble. I watch football with my kids, and now they want to try gambling, after seeing thousands of sports book ads. I find it really depressing.

> and now they want to try gambling

That sounds wretched. I can imagine parents trying to keep their kids away from smoking and drinking feeling the same way fifty years ago.

Re: The rising human cost of sports betting

#219

Post by lmilcin »

slap_shot wrote: post #46

I'm pretty Laissez-Faire about things, but a recent interaction with gambling is making me reconsider: My friend got a lot of free credits from the major sports books and wrote some code that he felt could generate a profit. We all threw in a little bit of money and let the program do what it does. Within a month we started doing 1k a day in profit on 3k wagered. Right as we approached 30k in profit, every major book…

Don't be so naive to even suggest that these businesses would allow you to earn money on them.

These only exist to earn money for their owner. That's it.

Just like any other establishment, you will be thrown out if you find a way to earn money on them rather than loose your own. Any casino that notices you are earning money regularly will do the same.

Re: The rising human cost of sports betting

#220

Post by jbc1 »

slap_shot wrote: post #46

I'm pretty Laissez-Faire about things, but a recent interaction with gambling is making me reconsider: My friend got a lot of free credits from the major sports books and wrote some code that he felt could generate a profit. We all threw in a little bit of money and let the program do what it does. Within a month we started doing 1k a day in profit on 3k wagered. Right as we approached 30k in profit, every major book…

What do you mean by "free credit", "3k wagered" and "limited to pennies on the dollar"?

Did they stop you from betting completely? Introduce a really low dollar limit per bet? Gub your accounts?

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