Live data from Hacker News

Please make a dumb car

techcrunch.com

521–530 of 671 posts

Re: Please make a dumb car

#521
> And besides being non-functional, these interfaces are even ugly! The type, the layouts, and animations scream “designed by committee and approved by someone who doesn’t have to use it.”

The main problem is that the car manufacturer has a monopoly on selling you features and updates after you have bought the car.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The steering wheel in an F1 car only goes about 220 degrees in either direction (drivers have to keep their hands on the wheel and their arms aren't made of rubber). The steering in a regular car goes about 540 degrees in either direction (one and a half times around). When parallel parking you often have to turn the wheel three whole revolutions. F1 steering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVz6IW_wegs&t=45s Tesla st…

how is that Tesla even legal?

it makes a mockery of so many absurd rules other manufacturers in the US have to follow. Really raises question how Tesla get away with these.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like everything done by Tesla: they have absolutely no experience in making cars, and it shows really badly. Terrible construction quality that I don't even experience on a 10k € Dacia, touch screens everywhere (it's already bad enough when it's just the radio or Android Auto, but a bunch of critical features are on the touch screen), the yoke having no physical feedback and clearly no thought other than "wow fu…

Tesla should really stick to making electric drivetrains and branding and let someone else design and build the rest if the car.

Honestly a lot of cars are ugly. Look at what they've been doing to BMWs lately. Safety features combined with an unwillingness to look very different from the rest of the pack anymore have created these designs by committee that are not truly terrible where they won't sell but also not very good where people will look to them as a piece of art like an old aircooled porsche.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#524

It should be illegal to make cars with high latency UIs. It routinely takes 1+ seconds for touchscreen button presses to be registered on my 2015 and 2018 Toyotas. This leads to erroneous actions being performed, which is not safe. If I were a software engineer on these teams I would quit if these systems were released on my watch.

Seriously. Computing hardware is an order of magnitude more powerful than in the early 2000s, but the latency bar has never been raised the entire time. You could buy a $1000 TV and it has the same lag while changing channels as the gen 1 720p flatscreen you had in 2005. Manufacturers collectively realized they can get away with substandard products since consumers have no real choice in the marketplace for a lot of products beyond the competitors who have already raced down to the bottom years ago.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#525
post #468

I went car shopping this year in the new market and found that that if you want more a "dumb" car (UX occurs primarily outside of a touchscreen, no internet, no geolocation) you lose all potential for any nice non-smart features. So no heated/powered seats, no power windows, the material of the interior is refurbished from a spirit airlines airplane, etc. I think manufacturers are hoping that certain aspects of the m…

> I wonder how well my car will age when miscellaneous sensor all over the car start failing. I predict that 50 years from now there will be more functioning cars from the 1960s than from the 2020s. With the combination of quickly obsoleting technology that won't be fixable and overly interconnected electronics that become impossible to diagnose after a while, there's not much hope for current and future cars to be a…

It's really ashame that we'll never see versions of those mechanical cars combined with the manufacturing precision and quality control available today.

Sure there are one-offs and some drop-ins available, but they'll never get dialed in the way cars do after a year or two of mass production.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with riding a bike in 0 °C weather? When dressed for the weather riding in the cold weather can be quite enjoyable as long as the roads are clear or your bike has appropriate tires.

You need some pretty thick gloves at 0°C. Also, if you're traveling by bike in freezing weather, you have to be dressed for freezing weather, and you'll be stuck with that during the entire time you spend at your destination.

Nah. Just dress normally and then put warm clothes on top (gloves, hat, a good coat, possibly some overtrousers for the rain) that you can remove at your destination.

Gloves needed at 0°C are reasonable. Sure, don't take gloves that let the wind go through.

I used to bike without gloves and a hat when freezing. Because I always lose them. The hands hurt, you end up being very cold. With appropriate clothes it's night and day, biking becomes enjoyable in winter.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#527

Strongly agree with this article. The car I love is my 1980 Datsun, but it just isn't good in the rain. My daily car is a Fiat 124 Spider. Reason I bought it was it was the least complicated, most direct driver-to-pavement, latest, fastest ride I could get for $20k with a stick shift. I won't buy an automatic. To Fiat's credit, I think they're the last manufacturer selling cars in America whose standard price is for…

Were you ever comparing with a miata? I'm curious how they compare since its the same platform.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everyone who clogged up the left lane in the '00s in their Prius is still doing the same thing today but in a Tacoma or 4Runner. The specific model of blind adoration may have changed but the fanboys still line the same pockets. If that is any indication Tesla will do just fine.

Toyota are doing fine because of their reliability. Can the same be said about Tesla?

Toyota has a brand image and they design, market and sell to that image.

Tesla has established a brand image based around a different set of attributes and they design, market and sell to it.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#529

I went car shopping this year in the new market and found that that if you want more a "dumb" car (UX occurs primarily outside of a touchscreen, no internet, no geolocation) you lose all potential for any nice non-smart features. So no heated/powered seats, no power windows, the material of the interior is refurbished from a spirit airlines airplane, etc. I think manufacturers are hoping that certain aspects of the m…

> I think manufacturers are hoping that certain aspects of the modern auto become "can't live withouts", e.g. bluetooth, which helps them smuggle all the other more marginally useful, security and ux intrusive features into your model. I think that implies nefariousness that probably isn't there. It's more likely a combination of: 1. Marketing/sales wanting whiz-bang features to use in their pitches. 2. Copycatting c…

It definitely fails Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." As long as you assume "stupidity" to include stupid things about the mathematics of our universe like coordination problems, design by committee, and the tragedy of the commons...

There's a very slow, very week feedback loop that may be too weak at the moment to fight against this trend: the customers who are dealing with and worry about perpetual sensor failures and computer issues at 150,000 miles are not the same customers who are buying the car off the dealership lot. Meanwhile, the people with brand new vehicles are not worried about those problems, they're only slightly (and only long after it's too late) worried about the eventual resale value. I trust that my old Toyota and Subaru will still be dependable and repairable for many years, but I won't buy an old BMW or Mercedes because my family and coworkers have too many horror stories of expensive, exotic gadgets that have gone bad in mysterious ways.

But we're 40 years removed from the bad old days of the 80s and 90s when those imports were decimating the lethargic Big 3 in quality and cost, which is more like the time scale on which consumer attitudes like that began to be formed. 2018 laws regarding rearview cameras are really new in comparison to a cultural thing like that.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#530
The solution is to just buy old cars.

I drive a 20 year old car. It's perfect. It has a CD player and you can use one of those 12 volt bluetooth / aux bongles if you want more.

Eventually my local area will probably ban them because they're obsessed with health metrics (cars a few years older are now effectively taxed out of existence). Then I'll have to make do with the log burner.

Until one of my neighbours dob me in for that, then I guess I move to the countryside or Eastern Europe or something and leave my house to a VR headset wonk.

Post reply on HN