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Moderna’s HIV vaccine has officially begun human trials

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Re: Moderna’s HIV vaccine has officially begun human trials

#21

Post by mlyle »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #10

As I understand it, the reason an HIV vaccine has been so difficult to create is that HIV mutates so easily. I understand the basics behind how mRNA vaccines are generated, but I don't understand why this approach would be expected to have any more success in evading the high mutation potential of HIV than other vaccine types. After all, it was even a concern with new coronavirus variants that the original Moderna va…

There's some known HIV "bnAbs", or broadly neutralizing antibodies. The thing is, these are not the antibodies most humans develop in response to HIV.

Previous HIV vaccine attempts have only done a fair job at eliciting these broadly neutralizing responses. e.g. SAV001, a "whole killed" HIV vaccine, only produces broadly neutralizing antibodies in about a third of recipients (and less broadly neutralizing response in a much bigger fraction).

The mRNA approach, like some recombinant approaches, seeks to generate just portions of envelope protein to tailor the response to produce these bnAbs.

Re: Moderna’s HIV vaccine has officially begun human trials

#22

Post by Vrondi »

gameswithgo wrote: post #9
rubyist5eva wrote: post #6

> We could be getting even closer to stopping the spread of HIV/AIDS. Not if it's anything like the Covid-19 vaccines that don't stop someone from contracting or spreading it.

The covid-19 vaccines were very effective at preventing disease and spread until the omicron mutation, which perhaps wouldn't have happened if not for vaccine hesitancy. (but that is an inevitable human nature thing, so you have to accept it and deal with) Fortunately the vaccines were still very effective at preventing death and hospitalization with omicron, I wonder how many lives were saved overall, so far? It is…

But, HIV mutates super easily, which is why we do not already have a more traditional vaccine that works. It will be a greater challenge in this regard than COVID-19/Omicron, not an easier one.

Re: Moderna’s HIV vaccine has officially begun human trials

#23

Post by pokot0 »

gameswithgo wrote: post #9
rubyist5eva wrote: post #6

> We could be getting even closer to stopping the spread of HIV/AIDS. Not if it's anything like the Covid-19 vaccines that don't stop someone from contracting or spreading it.

The covid-19 vaccines were very effective at preventing disease and spread until the omicron mutation, which perhaps wouldn't have happened if not for vaccine hesitancy. (but that is an inevitable human nature thing, so you have to accept it and deal with) Fortunately the vaccines were still very effective at preventing death and hospitalization with omicron, I wonder how many lives were saved overall, so far? It is…

As much as I'd like to blame them, the number of people who willingly refused the vaccine are irrelevant compared to those who do not have access to it.

Re: Moderna’s HIV vaccine has officially begun human trials

#24

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

luckydata wrote: post #15
thesis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you’re being downvoted all much… well actually no it’s pretty obvious. I think you’re right though. The current Covid-19 vaccines are proven to lose efficacy over time. Will the same thing happen with this one as well? It’s a good question.

because the point he's making is wrong. Vaccines are doing a fantastic job at slowing down the progression of the virus which is key to keep mutations at bay. No vaccine is 100% effective, but even 80% effectiveness radically changes the dynamic of a pandemic, it's so easy to see that I don't understand what can lead someone to deny this fact besides bad faith.

I wholeheartedly agree, I downvoted the comment because it appeared to be made in bad faith (and from another comment I posted on this topic, I obviously share the concern that this HIV vaccine may lose efficacy over time).

Also, it's not hard to see how a vaccine for HIV would be much more effective at slowing pandemic progression than a vaccine for an airborne virus, even if the vaccines conferred the same benefits. Right now, if you get HIV, you are essentially contagious for life until you get on antiretrovirals that can bring your viral load to undetectable (and, you also need to be on those antiretrovirals for life). If an HIV vaccine prevented you from having a long term infection, it could potentially fully end the pandemic.

Re: Moderna’s HIV vaccine has officially begun human trials

#25

Post by megaman821 »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #6

> We could be getting even closer to stopping the spread of HIV/AIDS. Not if it's anything like the Covid-19 vaccines that don't stop someone from contracting or spreading it.

The Covid-19 vaccines were made against the original strain in which it was 95% effective. Let's see how the updated Omicron vaccine goes. I am guessing we are going to see above 90% effectiveness. mRNA vaccines are looking pretty promising at neutralizing the specific virus they are targeting. How effective that is for mutated and related viruses is what remains to be seen.

Re: Moderna’s HIV vaccine has officially begun human trials

#27

Post by Vrondi »

spamizbad wrote: post #17
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #10

As I understand it, the reason an HIV vaccine has been so difficult to create is that HIV mutates so easily. I understand the basics behind how mRNA vaccines are generated, but I don't understand why this approach would be expected to have any more success in evading the high mutation potential of HIV than other vaccine types. After all, it was even a concern with new coronavirus variants that the original Moderna va…

One reason is that mRNA vaccines can be developed much faster than traditional vaccines. So the idea is you have a better chance of "outrunning" a strain.

No post body was provided.

Re: Moderna’s HIV vaccine has officially begun human trials

#28

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

mlyle wrote: post #21
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #10

As I understand it, the reason an HIV vaccine has been so difficult to create is that HIV mutates so easily. I understand the basics behind how mRNA vaccines are generated, but I don't understand why this approach would be expected to have any more success in evading the high mutation potential of HIV than other vaccine types. After all, it was even a concern with new coronavirus variants that the original Moderna va…

There's some known HIV "bnAbs", or broadly neutralizing antibodies. The thing is, these are not the antibodies most humans develop in response to HIV. Previous HIV vaccine attempts have only done a fair job at eliciting these broadly neutralizing responses. e.g. SAV001, a "whole killed" HIV vaccine, only produces broadly neutralizing antibodies in about a third of recipients (and less broadly neutralizing response in…

Thank you! Just the kind of explanation I was looking for, most appreciated.

Re: Moderna’s HIV vaccine has officially begun human trials

#29

Post by _6hmp »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #6

> We could be getting even closer to stopping the spread of HIV/AIDS. Not if it's anything like the Covid-19 vaccines that don't stop someone from contracting or spreading it.

it's defense in depth.

if someone has HIV, they can be treated and if they are consistent with treatment they can have such a low (undetectable) viral load that it is not transmittable. (aka U=U)

additionally, high risk populations (transactional sex, msm, intravenous drug users) can take the same drugs and be protected from the virus. (aka PREP)

also people with known exposures or likely exposures can have post exposure prophylaxis with the same drugs (e.g. in the case of an accidental needle stick in a healthcare worker).

These defenses have already radically slowed the spread and increased the lifespan and quality of life of those who become HIV positive.

Now we will hopefully have a an additional defense that will be even easier (no daily dosing required for negative at-risk population) and probably much more broadly administered.

I love the progress we are making with vaccines.

Re: Moderna’s HIV vaccine has officially begun human trials

#30

Post by woodruffw »

Vrondi wrote: post #22
gameswithgo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The covid-19 vaccines were very effective at preventing disease and spread until the omicron mutation, which perhaps wouldn't have happened if not for vaccine hesitancy. (but that is an inevitable human nature thing, so you have to accept it and deal with) Fortunately the vaccines were still very effective at preventing death and hospitalization with omicron, I wonder how many lives were saved overall, so far? It is…

But, HIV mutates super easily, which is why we do not already have a more traditional vaccine that works. It will be a greater challenge in this regard than COVID-19/Omicron, not an easier one.

Two observations:

1. Given the continued efficacy of the COVID-19 vaccines against severe illness, it stands to (lay-)reason that a similar outcome might occur with HIV. A world in which HIV is roughly as transmissible as it currently is (and is still responsive to other avenues of treatment/prevention, like PrEP) but where it does not cause fatal immunocompromization is an extremely preferable world.

2. We have no particular reason to believe that HIV's mutation vectors are more or less susceptible to the vectors that mRNA vaccines target, versus "traditional" vaccines.

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