Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web • Hacker News Board

Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web

#221

Post by hattmall » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

patrickk wrote: post #126

skummetmaelk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It corrupts and twists everything it touches into a constant hustle for eyeball-cash This cannot be overstated. Everything today is a battle for eye-balls and ad money. The corruption is insane. You can't even buy appliances designed perform their function well. Instead you can buy cheap junk for less than cogs because they make money selling your data to ad companies instead of making money by making products that…

> You can't even buy appliances designed perform their function well You can't research good appliances either online, because the SERPs are stuffed with SEO-ed blogs and sometimes industry magazines, monetized with Amazon affiliates or other networks, with titles like "5 best dishwashers in 2022". Unless you know someone in the industry or offline with knowledge you don't know what to buy. This is noticeable in many…

One market where this has always been a problem is tools. So almost 20 years ago we were told in shop class that the industry magazines and reviews were basically all paid for by manufacturers. The solution we learned was to always buy the cheapest option first. If it breaks or fails to meet your needs understand how and why and then move on to a more costly tool that you can demonstrate is better in the specific way you need it to be. Of course thats not always practical or feasible but for the majority of items it really is.

Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web

#222

Post by munificent » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

TheIronMark wrote: post #51

reincarnate0x14 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel zero guilt about ad blocking. There was some period of discussion on the subject back in like 2003 but the ad companies went to war against human civilization and there's been no going back. It corrupts and twists everything it touches into a constant hustle for eyeball-cash and an entire generation has now reached adulthood knowing nothing but that hustle touching every bit of media they ever interact with. W…

Quoted post unavailable.

There is, I think, a valid argument that we got here today because in the early days of the web:

1. People wanted content without paying for it.

2. Creators wanted/needed financial support to make and host their work.

Advertising filled the void between those two things. You can think of it as sort of a natural, emergent property. No one wanted advertising, but the way the individual actors behaved—web users preferring sites that didn't charge them, creators that didn't advertise going out of business—led to the rise of advertising.

I think that is part of why some people don't think of advertising as morally bad. No one deliberately nefariously foisted it onto the world, it just arose from the behavior of individuals. That behavior created an environment, and the environment evolved the dominance of ads.

You can use that exact same argument justify the use of ad-blockers now.

People using ad blockers are not actively trying to harm creators. They are just using the web and tools available in the way that makes the most sense for them. This is exactly the same as when they chose to prefer non-paid ad-supported content before. The system gave them options, and they chose the ones that they prefer.

Creators will in turn make the choices that make the most sense for them. If ad blockers mean that they no longer make money from ads, they'll find other ways to be sustainably creative. Markets aren't magic solutions to all problems, but in this case I think the market is working pretty damn efficiently.

People are using ad blockers because ads are bad for them. If consumers improving the quality of their own life is a problem for the system, the system should change. And in order to change, it needs systemic incentives to do so. Ad blockers create that incentive.

An argument against ad blockers is essentially an argument for forcing users to consume something toxic. Imagine if McDonald's stopped selling burgers in isolation, required you to buy combos, and then forced you to drink your entire soda. When people who wanted to cut back on unhealthy sugar complained, they were told that they're the problem because McDonald's makes most of its profit from drinks. If they don't drink the soda then McDonald's won't be as profitable and then they won't be in business. That's basically the argument against ad blockers.

But... a burger joint that forced you to chug soda should be out of business, or should at least have to change its pricing in a way that lets people eat in a healthier manner. Ad blockers enable consumers to "stop drinking the soda" in the attention combo offered by sites.

Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web

#223

Post by notriddle » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #106

bambax wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny part is I remember a time when even on HN the majority defended ads for a myriad of reasons, and one of those reasons was that people actually liked ads and wanted them. This line of reasoning has completely disappeared from the mainstream. I think that's a problem for the ad companies. They have not yet lost the war, but it seems they have lost the argument.

I remember this. "People want personalized information on products they are interested in. How else would they find out about them?" As if people would be at a loss buying a car or breakfast cereal or a pair of shoes without ads.

I do think there's a reasonable argument for ads, since people don't always know what they could be looking for [1]. Independent magazines can serve a similar purpose, but the difference is between an organization that claims to be unaffiliated with the manufacturer, and needs to be constantly policed to make sure they aren't lying about it, and just being up-front about your affiliation, and only needing to be constantly policed to make sure you aren't lying about the product itself.

Unfortunately, web ads suck. Because there isn't enough Gatekeeping(tm), I can't buy things from web ads, because the probability of it being a scam is too high.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_mLxyIXpSY

Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web

#224

Post by vbezhenar » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

RandallBrown wrote: post #44

vbezhenar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using my own simplistic adblock at home (mostly because youtube ads driving me nuts) and I don't use any adblock at work (mostly because I'm too lazy to configure it). I'm not a fan of using browser extensions, especially those which require full access to every webpage, that's too much of attack surface in my opinion and ads are not that bad on websites I visit.

I block ads on YouTube by paying for YouTube Premium.

It's not available in my country.

Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web

#225

Post by andai » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

williamdclt wrote: post #161

patrickk wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't even buy appliances designed perform their function well You can't research good appliances either online, because the SERPs are stuffed with SEO-ed blogs and sometimes industry magazines, monetized with Amazon affiliates or other networks, with titles like "5 best dishwashers in 2022". Unless you know someone in the industry or offline with knowledge you don't know what to buy. This is noticeable in many…

The only solution I found to that is to bypass google completely and directly go search on Reddit, where real humans have human opinions (sometimes HN, too).

4chan's /g/ for tech gear and /diy/ for bigger gear is great for that sort of thing. There's "generals" for common subjects like headphones, PC building etc, and "stupid questions thread" where you can ask about anything. Do note that 4chan can be very offensive and politically incorrect, you need a bit of a thick skin to get along there.

Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web

#226

Post by notapenny » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

Geee wrote: post #129

Youtube, especially, turns into a whole different experience. Ad in front of every video makes it impossible to quickly browse and sort through videos. I might watch just a few seconds and then go to the next one. When ads are enabled, the experience is so painful that I'm not likely to use Youtube this way any more. I have to watch an ad before I've made the decision if I want to watch the video.

Youtube is the reason I installed an adblocker in the first place. I don't mind watching an ad, but at some point they went from an ad every other video, to unskippable ads in-front of every video (love a 1m ad on every 10s video when I'm just browsing clips) and mid-content ads that literally just cut in and disrupt what I'm watching.

Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web

#227

Post by munificent » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

spikej wrote: post #121

hateful wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ran ad blocking on Youtube for years, and I've been a Premium member since it came out (as Red back then). I can't stand ads and avoid them like the plague. Some ads still sneak into my world though. My current peeve is when going to a restaurant and they have "the game" on full blast. I'm perfectly fine with people watching/listening to the game - and half the time the restaurant is considered a "sports bar", so I…

dude... go to a different restaurant. You might even find it's less crowded, and you get better service because there's no game on!

Depends on where you live. Here in the Pacific Northwest, there are plenty of TV-free restaurant choices. Back when I lived in the South, it was a lot harder to find.

Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web

#228

Post by karxxm » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

Am try to raise my 3yo daughter completely ad free. When watching a show, we exclusively use paid providers like YT, Netflix, Disney where no ads are present. Additionally, AdGuard helps removing some annoying Ads from minigame-Apps. For now, she is very young and it doesn't matter so much. But still, I want to keep up with this as long as possible. No free TV and no ads on web for her!

Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web

#229

Post by Bendy » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

patrickk wrote: post #126

skummetmaelk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It corrupts and twists everything it touches into a constant hustle for eyeball-cash This cannot be overstated. Everything today is a battle for eye-balls and ad money. The corruption is insane. You can't even buy appliances designed perform their function well. Instead you can buy cheap junk for less than cogs because they make money selling your data to ad companies instead of making money by making products that…

> You can't even buy appliances designed perform their function well You can't research good appliances either online, because the SERPs are stuffed with SEO-ed blogs and sometimes industry magazines, monetized with Amazon affiliates or other networks, with titles like "5 best dishwashers in 2022". Unless you know someone in the industry or offline with knowledge you don't know what to buy. This is noticeable in many…

And I learn that Google is actually upset that its search results are suffering degradation by rampant, runaway SEO—they reap what they sow, and at everyone’s expense. Such brought to mind The Sheep Look Up by John Brunner as the web faces its own environmental collapse:

“You…treated the world like a fucking great toilet bowl. You shat in it and boasted about the mess you’d made. And now it’s full and overflowing, and you’re fat and happy and black kids are going crazy to keep you rich. Goodbye!”

Adblocking isn’t simply convenience it’s life-preserving.

Re: Adblocking people and non-adblocking people experience a different web

#230

Post by jerf » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 6:02 PM UTC

hateful wrote: post #47

zuminator wrote: post #7

I've had YouTube Premium since its inception. Whenever I'm around someone else who puts on a free-tier version of YouTube its rather shocking how frequent and intrusive the commercial ads are.

I ran ad blocking on Youtube for years, and I've been a Premium member since it came out (as Red back then). I can't stand ads and avoid them like the plague. Some ads still sneak into my world though. My current peeve is when going to a restaurant and they have "the game" on full blast. I'm perfectly fine with people watching/listening to the game - and half the time the restaurant is considered a "sports bar", so I…

Another alternative is ask them to turn it down and turn on CC.

I wish more of these places would have CC on. Especially if multiple programs are on, you can't have the audio. There's a solution right there, built right in, just waiting.... page in the conversation about how accessibility can be useful to more than just the immediately disabled.