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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#321

Post by Karunamon »

epicide wrote: post #297
AdrianB1 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first reaction was to write a comment about why you don't need WiFi on a dishwasher. Then I found there may be use cases: you want to start the washing program from the office so it finishes right before you get home. That day when you need to stay another hour in the office, being able to interact with the machine is a nice to have, even if not a really important thing. Same as with air conditioning when you want…

If you already have the dishwasher loaded with the dishes before you leave for work, why not just run it then?

Off-peak electricity pricing, not wanting to wake/disturb others with noise, not wanting to consume too much hot water before the rest of the house showers or uses the clothes washer...

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#322

Post by stragies »

dpark wrote: post #262
stragies wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we are different, but I enjoy comforts like "Schedule run for lower cost nighttime running", "Alert me, when the Finishing liquid is starting to run low, so that HomeAssitant can add it to my shopping list", "Automatically measure some values of my (drinking) water supply, and tell HomeAssistant about them". "Set a status in HomeAssistant, when a run has finished"...

Normal dishwashers solve for this with a button or knob labeled “delay”. Breaking out an app to set the dishwasher to start late songs much less convenient. Occasionally I wish I had more granularity on the delay but never have I wanted an app to do it. I don’t know what I’d do with any of that other stuff. Does your dishwasher actually try to measure water quality? Because that seems like a really poor fit. I wouldn…

The point of such remote-scheduling is in my view, is that e.g. when HA notices, that the machine has not run in 3 days, but is closed, then it can send a notification to my phone, with Buttons for "Go Now", and one for "Tonight, one hour after last movement detection".

And I thought at least some dishwashers heated the water themselves, like my washing machine. At least the water-hardness value is nice to know, and (since it's super-easy with HA) log/graph it over time. Plus detergent and salt levels are nice to know for shopping-list-planning.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#323

Post by datavirtue »

buro9 wrote: post #77
michaelt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

We used to get this right before stamping them out in the factory. Instead, everything is all appy now, for the benefit of the manufacturer. They are riding the hype to normalize their shitty behavior. Sort of like when banks inconvenience you for thier sake and say it's to protect you (the person under no risk of liability).

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#325

Post by jerjerjer »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #95
buro9 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

In theory, but in practice it doesn't actually matter enough for it to make a difference. What software-only advances are being made in wash efficiency these days?

Improved detection of unlicensed dishwasher tablets.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#326

Post by nbernard »

jsmith45 wrote: post #224
buro9 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just throw my laundry in the machine Into the dishwasher?

I suppose it technically could clean clothing too, albeit you probably can't fit very much without balling or layering stuff up too much to get it clean. A clothes washing machine is probably more efficient for this purpose. Although for countries where laundry machines are typically in the kitchen, a theoretical hybrid machine would be interesting (if it worked well, and the dish specific stuff could fold away compa…

Considering the pH of dishwasher liquid, you may not have much clothes remaining at the end of the washing cycle...

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#327

Post by Karunamon »

bentcorner wrote: post #263
nsxwolf wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every dishwasher I've ever used, your best bet is to put everything on full blast, least efficient settings. Otherwise the dishes get "almost" clean. I always imagine the engineers standing around patting themselves on the back after testing, and marveling how their ideas worked so well most of the dishes got clean. The dishes all need to be totally clean, every time, or it's useless to me.

Don't use detergent pods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04

tl;dw (but you really should watch this):

- Don't use pods

- Fill the main and prewash cups every time. The prewash is intended to be used every time, not just when the dishes are exceptionally dirty.

- Run the hot water in the attached sink to full heat to ensure the washer gets filled with hot water

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#328

Post by goodpoint »

ethbr0 wrote: post #245
BruiseLee wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case of modern appliances, you are not the only customer/user of the product. Other customers are various advertisers that are interested in data about you. The updates provide enhancements for these other customers.

We should stop calling it the advertising industry and just call it the tracking industry. Advertising just happens to be the most obvious consumer. IMHO, IoT is a clusterfuck because it's preying on users' past goodwill towards computing. Historically, computers have worked "pretty well" (especially in the last couple decades). So users, when looking at a network-enabled fridge, toaster, etc. logically assume "Oh, t…

> We should stop calling it the advertising industry and just call it the tracking industry

Tracking is not even the most harmful aspect.

Tracking is a requirement for targeted psychological manipulation (AKA advertisement) including voter manipulation like Cambridge Analytica did.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#329

Post by Schnitz »

michaelt wrote: post #51
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

The WiFi functionality on Miele appliances is completely optional. Just don’t connect it to WiFi during initial setup and it’ll never do anything connected or prompt you about it. You can also reset the config if you change your mind later. You can even buy the cheaper model without WiFi. Frankly, I don’t see the problem here.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#330

Post by taeric »

badwolf wrote: post #273
avs733 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’m in the kitchen sure! But after a 10hr work da bookended by 2 hrs on each side playing with my daughter and 1hr of dealing with life stuff I want to get into bed. Beds on the second floor…I can get up and go downstairs and check the light. Or I can look at an app on my phone. I’ll totally admit, I was incredibly anti smart appliance. I don’t want a tablet on my fridge. But done well, done quietly, they can actu…

Someone still has to be there in person to put the dishes in the dishwasher, add the detergents, and close it. All this seems to be doing is moving the next step "Pressing the start button" further away behind more unnecessary steps (Search app store for dishwasher app, download dishwasher app, create dishwasher app account, connect dishwasher to wifi/bluetooth and pair with diswasher app, press "start wash" on dishw…

The use cases given above are legit. Doing yard work, see the notice from machine that it is done, so I can go move to the next load. Or, close it, but not start in case I find a few extra items.

None of that is necessary, sure. But, also isn't worth vitriol from the crowd that hates them.

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