Earlier quoted context omitted.
I work for a crypto company. This is actually a solved problem. The solution is to use multi-sig wallets - at least for amounts that would be missed. A company might have a "5 of 8" multi-sig. This means that to move money, five of the eight team member accounts with keys have to agree and sign off on each transaction. This is massively better than secret sharing - once a secret is put together, that secret then work…
What do you use in practice for multisig ?
Did I just lose half a million dollars?
791–800 of 837 posts
Re: Did I just lose half a million dollars?
#792Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you real with trading, options and swaps without understanding them - yes, very much so
Well no, you can use options and swaps to accidentally "gift" your money to more proficient traders or to market-making institutions or just pay it away in fees, but in all those cases you're giving the money to someone, not shredding it.
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Re: Did I just lose half a million dollars?
#793Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting how your example has just completely changed. But also, wiring money is a thing that laypeople almost never do. It’s nerve wracking to wire money. But the equivalent in cryptocurrency is just how it’s done. Every transaction is just a fuckup with no recourse waiting to happen.
What's so interesting? I already told you this wasn't a simple missclick. No need to reiterate. You can dump money into a pit just as easy with the classic banking system. Where I live (EU), wiring money is the primary way of payments and money transfers. People don't use anything else.
> I already told you this wasn't a simple missclick.
Seems like it essentially was. He exchanged ETH for WETH in exactly the same way. Assuming that the reverse would work (as opposed to destroying the money) was not an unreasonable step. He still screwed up, but a design that allows this is user hostile and stupid.
> You can dump money into a pit just as easy with the classic banking system. Where I live (EU), wiring money…
In the US at least, you can get your money back through the legal system. Accidentally dropping your money into someone else’s account does not give them a right to it and for substantial amounts of money people can and do get their money back.
For this amount of money I’d consider pursuing legal avenues against the developers of Etherium. This design seems borderline negligent and Etherium has modified the code at least once already to force a refund.
Re: Did I just lose half a million dollars?
#794Re: Did I just lose half a million dollars?
#795Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok, you are definitely not arguing this is good faith any longer. Get lost.
What do you mean? If you can convince a sufficiently large share of the community, you can in fact roll back transactions.
This is a massively disingenuous argument, and you know it.
Re: Did I just lose half a million dollars?
#796Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's so interesting? I already told you this wasn't a simple missclick. No need to reiterate. You can dump money into a pit just as easy with the classic banking system. Where I live (EU), wiring money is the primary way of payments and money transfers. People don't use anything else.
> I already told you this wasn't a simple missclick. Seems like it essentially was. He exchanged ETH for WETH in exactly the same way. Assuming that the reverse would work (as opposed to destroying the money) was not an unreasonable step. He still screwed up, but a design that allows this is user hostile and stupid. > You can dump money into a pit just as easy with the classic banking system. Where I live (EU), wirin…
Consumer wallet software gives you a warning that this is probably not what you want.
> In the US at least, you can get your money back through the legal system. Accidentally dropping your money into someone else’s account does not give them a right to it and for substantial amounts of money people can and do get their money back.
I doubt this is true in the case of uncooperative out-of-country second party - yeah they have no right to the money, but they don't care and the legal system won't do much for you.
Re: Did I just lose half a million dollars?
#797Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok so the problem then seems to be with your understanding of the space, not with crypto itself. I don't go to a geneticist and go "the problem with genetics is I have no idea what any of it means".
This isn’t genetics, it’s money. Crypto needs to be simple enough for everyone to understand before it can be adopted by everyone. My kids understand stocks and back transfers, while incredibly smart and savvy people are getting confused about crypto and losing money accidentally (it’s not just this single incident, it’s a common story). This isn’t good, and shouldn’t be dismissed as people having unreasonable expect…
Treating this transfer of WETH as just 'money' is an overly simplified model that is going to get someone burned in the same way as this reddit user. You are interacting directly with low level APIs that are irreversible while sending a lot of money to them, without knowing what they do. This is NOT good, and believe anyone without thorough understanding of these risks and how ERC APIs work should NOT be doing this.
There is an absolute need for cleaner UX on top of this with assurance/insurance to avoid this scenario (both of which exist and are being improved regularly). In the same way you don't directly interface with SWIFT APIs when doing bank transfers, you should not interface directly with ERC20 approve/transferFrom APIs in Ethereum, unless you really know what you are doing.
Re: Did I just lose half a million dollars?
#798Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I already told you this wasn't a simple missclick. Seems like it essentially was. He exchanged ETH for WETH in exactly the same way. Assuming that the reverse would work (as opposed to destroying the money) was not an unreasonable step. He still screwed up, but a design that allows this is user hostile and stupid. > You can dump money into a pit just as easy with the classic banking system. Where I live (EU), wirin…
Consumer wallet software gives you a warning that this is probably not what you want. > In the US at least, you can get your money back through the legal system. Accidentally dropping your money into someone else’s account does not give them a right to it and for substantial amounts of money people can and do get their money back. I doubt this is true in the case of uncooperative out-of-country second party - yeah th…
Did this guy get a warning?
I still find the wire transfer comparison lacking, mostly because one shitty design does not justify another.
Re: Did I just lose half a million dollars?
#799Since no one seems to think about how this could have prevented, here is a simple way, which I've applied to lots of things in life, not just cryptocurrency transfers: - If you're making a transfer somewhere with a large amount, do a small transfer first and verify it's working. Confirm at the receiving end before moving big sums. - If you're calling a contract, try it with a small amount first. Verify the parameters…
Simpler way: use real financial instruments. Traditional financial systems have had solutions for errors like this for centuries.
Accidentally transferring half a million dollars to the wrong external account is going to be an absolute mess to recover. There are ways to stop it if you catch it RIGHT away, but it will turn into a nightmare pretty quickly.
Re: Did I just lose half a million dollars?
#800Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends on the service, but I would think (ianal) if somebody publishes a smart contract and says "you can buy my house via this smart contract", then that person is the counter party, not the smart contract. Of course you can burn your crypto and send it so some random contract. You can also take traditional money, go to the woods and burn it.
If the borrower and the lender sign a loan agreement with an intermediary, or among themselves, then sure, but this is conventional finance, not decentralised finance. In this situation the dumb contract becomes redundant. It doesn't do anything.
In the case of real estate, it replaces the solicitor. And it facilitates the money transfer, so it also replaces the bank.