Hiring for conscientiousness (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: Hiring for conscientiousness (2019)

#11

Post by Palomides » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 2:07 PM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #8

Was anybody else completely turned off by the pop-up that screams "Keep Reading..."? Ugh. I quit after that. Also, please don't confuse conscientiousness with bed-side manner. They are plenty of people have excellent "bed-side manner" (all industries), but are not conscientiousness. Think of a school librarian who is loved by the children, but cannot manage the day-to-day work of library operations. The two may be co…

I experienced an interview like your #2 a few years ago, they gave a situation like "it is your first day and a customer has an issue, here is their phone number" and played through a tricky drawn out process of figuring out what was going on

I flubbed it because, I assume, I didn't ask teammates for advice/support, so I guess it worked, since that was a weakness I had

in retrospect I think it's a fair strategy for interviews

Re: Hiring for conscientiousness (2019)

#12

Post by ClumsyPilot » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 2:12 PM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #8

Was anybody else completely turned off by the pop-up that screams "Keep Reading..."? Ugh. I quit after that. Also, please don't confuse conscientiousness with bed-side manner. They are plenty of people have excellent "bed-side manner" (all industries), but are not conscientiousness. Think of a school librarian who is loved by the children, but cannot manage the day-to-day work of library operations. The two may be co…

In different interviews, candidate might be asked the same literal question but be expected to produce very different responses. The interviwer will ususally provide no context for the situation or state what he is looking for.

Interviews are not a simulation of reality, so you don't have context like you would in a real situation. Like in dungeons and dragon, what moves are allowed? What are the rules of engagement?

The people you will select are often those that read non-verbal clues or guessed what you are looking for. Thats why there is so much culture bias in interviews.

Re: Hiring for conscientiousness (2019)

#13

Post by throwaway2037 » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

trabant00 wrote: post #3

> “I divide my officers into four classes; the clever, the lazy, the industrious, and the stupid. Each officer possesses at least two of these qualities. Those who are clever and industrious are fitted for the highest staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has the temperament and nerves to deal with all situation…

For other readers not familiar with >:

Personally, I am most interested about >!

Re: Hiring for conscientiousness (2019)

#14

Post by throwaway2037 » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 2:16 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #12

throwaway2037 wrote: post #8

Was anybody else completely turned off by the pop-up that screams "Keep Reading..."? Ugh. I quit after that. Also, please don't confuse conscientiousness with bed-side manner. They are plenty of people have excellent "bed-side manner" (all industries), but are not conscientiousness. Think of a school librarian who is loved by the children, but cannot manage the day-to-day work of library operations. The two may be co…

In different interviews, candidate might be asked the same literal question but be expected to produce very different responses. The interviwer will ususally provide no context for the situation or state what he is looking for. Interviews are not a simulation of reality, so you don't have context like you would in a real situation. Like in dungeons and dragon, what moves are allowed? What are the rules of engagement?…

That is a good point. I would be very upfront and provide a one pager before the interview explaining sample questions and what we are looking for.

Also, each time I interview a software engineer, I give a 30 second "speech" that is roughly: "For today's technical interview, we are not interested in what you do NOT know. We are interested in what you do know and how deeply you know it. Some interviewers are trying to trick you or show they are smart or show that you are wrong. That is not us. If we discuss a topic that you don't know about or have no experience, just tell us. No problem -- we will move to a different topic."

Re: Hiring for conscientiousness (2019)

#15

Post by rendall » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 2:20 PM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #8

Was anybody else completely turned off by the pop-up that screams "Keep Reading..."? Ugh. I quit after that. Also, please don't confuse conscientiousness with bed-side manner. They are plenty of people have excellent "bed-side manner" (all industries), but are not conscientiousness. Think of a school librarian who is loved by the children, but cannot manage the day-to-day work of library operations. The two may be co…

> Was anybody else completely turned off by the pop-up that screams "Keep Reading..."? Ugh. I quit after that.

Absolutely, and me too. It seemed to be a good article, but it had not convinced me that it was worth it to give up my anonymity and data to those people. No, quite the contrary. It pissed me off so much that I came to HN to whine about it, which is something nobody wants.

Re: Hiring for conscientiousness (2019)

#16

Post by ddkwool » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 2:29 PM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #10

sdevonoes wrote: post #6

> Look for evidence of side-projects or things that go above and beyond. This is always a good sign. Of course, be understanding of people’s personal situations—not everyone has a personal and professional life that allows them the luxury of side projects. That said, I believe most conscientious people will have evidence of these types of projects, even if they are doing them as part of their day job. I have side pro…

I agree. In 2022, it is amazing that people are still using (public) "side projects" as a very strong signal for good job candidates. Taken to the absurd: > That also means most people with heavy emotional labour duties (pregnancy, family care, illness, health issues, etc.) are excluded, almost by definition.

Thank you for this. I have spent the last few years bringing up my kids, and now dread the application process in getting back to work, lots of interesting little projects that are not online and yes health issues have been in my way.

How do I present myself as worthy in this landscape?

Re: Hiring for conscientiousness (2019)

#17

Post by mac-chaffee » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

I'm surprised they are using "conscientiousness" exclusively in the sense of being careful and nothing about knowing right from wrong. There are so many jobs in the tech industry that a truly conscientious person should steer clear of.

If you plan on hiring from the world's precious pool of conscientious people, please make damn sure that the job warrants that quality. Take a hard look at your employer's effect on the world before hiring a conscientious person who will find those sore spots eventually, at great personal cost.

Re: Hiring for conscientiousness (2019)

#18

Post by rr808 » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

I've always been conscientious and it really backfired. When something breaks at 2am they call me to fix. They never call the recently hired slick-talking guru who experiments with the latest cool technology but can't actually deliver anything and who will leave before the end of the year anyway.

Re: Hiring for conscientiousness (2019)

#19

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 2:34 PM UTC

Unless you are working for a charity or in a field like healthcare with direct patient care, buying into the vision of a company that you yourself do not actually own is one of the stupidest and most naive things you can do.

The more you treat it like an exchange of your time and skills for money, the better you will be. Otherwise, people will ruthlessly exploit you and then leave you out to dry at the whenever is good for them.

Ask yourself, how likely is the startup owner to conscientiously think about your needs if for example you end up with a sick family member and need to take extended time off to take care of them? Will they try their best to “go above and beyond” and support you in this trying time financially? Will they care that you have been conscientious, or will they be thinking how much money they are wasting on you and looking to get rid of you as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

Re: Hiring for conscientiousness (2019)

#20

Post by JoeAltmaier » Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #19

Unless you are working for a charity or in a field like healthcare with direct patient care, buying into the vision of a company that you yourself do not actually own is one of the stupidest and most naive things you can do. The more you treat it like an exchange of your time and skills for money, the better you will be. Otherwise, people will ruthlessly exploit you and then leave you out to dry at the whenever is go…

That's one calculus for sure. But most of us choose a career in a field we find congenial. Consider, if you actually like what you're doing and the impact it has on the world, you will likely excel past all those 'in it just for the money'.

I'd guess that many fields are managed and run by those who fit the former category. I prefer to be one of those.