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Message in a bottle from Scottish girl found in Norway after 25 years

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Message in a bottle from Scottish girl found in Norway after 25 years

#81

Post by Lammy »

alar44 wrote: post #73
Lammy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe forgotten in an active sense, but those years are critical for instilling the passive behaviors and expectations which help make us into productive human resources to serve the economy as adults. Things like learning not to talk until called upon, learning to ask before being allowed to use the restroom or for other bodily functions, learning to be identified by an ID number, learning to answer a daily roll-cal…

You've got some issues you need to sort out. Don't cut yourself on that edge.

Great job! You get a gold star.

Re: Message in a bottle from Scottish girl found in Norway after 25 years

#82

Post by Rygian »

jmkni wrote: post #76

I've seen so many of these stories recently: "message in a bottle found after..." - https://www.google.com/search?q=%22message+in+a+bottle+found... "letter delivered after..." - https://www.google.com/search?q=%22letter+delivered+after%22... "postcard delivered after..." - https://www.google.com/search?q=%22postcard+delivered+after%... At least some of these are fake, surely?

What is your thought process to suppose they are fake? I would start with the assumption that they are fact-checked reports coming from reputable journalists.

Re: Message in a bottle from Scottish girl found in Norway after 25 years

#83

Post by DocTomoe »

iso1631 wrote: post #77
DocTomoe wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting that I only ever hear that kind of complaint from Americans. Here in Europe, cursive/script is the basic way you learn writing, you automatically transition to something other later in life ... and we have zero hate for either variant. As for lack of legibility: I would guess US teachers not enforcing good style in preschool and elementary school contribute to that.

https://www.tes.com/magazine/teaching-learning/general/do-we... Someone defending this outdatd practice despite "the tide turning" against it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41927258 Quoting slow children who can't read by the age of five somehow benefit, and rather than testing what children know we should punish them for not having outdated skills > In the same way, bad handwriting leads to poorer test…

From your second link:

> It tested students by asking them to take notes from a lecture, using either a laptop or a pen and paper, and then tested their recall on both facts and deeper conceptual questions.

>

> Essentially, the study found that students taking long-form notes on pen and paper tended to process the information on a deeper level.

And that's what we (should) send kids to school for.

Re: Message in a bottle from Scottish girl found in Norway after 25 years

#84

Post by tempestn »

iso1631 wrote: post #80
tempestn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing that primary school shouldn't teach a bunch of random things, just that I think cursive is at least as useful to learn as most of them. Having it in the curriculum doesn't mean less time for foundational material for later years.

Cursive is of absolutely no use to 99.9% of people Writing short notes legibly is of course useful, reading is essential, typing is essential, learning how to research subjects (history, geography, biology etc) is useful

I don't write by hand much anymore, but I sure wrote a lot in university. I would think the same would be true for most students, which would account for more than 0.1% of people. Sure I could have printed my notes, but cursive was easier and faster. Could have typed them too (at least in most classes; some profs don't like it), but writing tends to result in better retention.

Re: Message in a bottle from Scottish girl found in Norway after 25 years

#85

Post by tempestn »

alar44 wrote: post #73
Lammy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe forgotten in an active sense, but those years are critical for instilling the passive behaviors and expectations which help make us into productive human resources to serve the economy as adults. Things like learning not to talk until called upon, learning to ask before being allowed to use the restroom or for other bodily functions, learning to be identified by an ID number, learning to answer a daily roll-cal…

You've got some issues you need to sort out. Don't cut yourself on that edge.

It appears they may already have a diagnosis of oppositional defiant disorder.

Re: Message in a bottle from Scottish girl found in Norway after 25 years

#86

Post by iso1631 »

tempestn wrote: post #84
iso1631 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cursive is of absolutely no use to 99.9% of people Writing short notes legibly is of course useful, reading is essential, typing is essential, learning how to research subjects (history, geography, biology etc) is useful

I don't write by hand much anymore, but I sure wrote a lot in university. I would think the same would be true for most students, which would account for more than 0.1% of people. Sure I could have printed my notes, but cursive was easier and faster. Could have typed them too (at least in most classes; some profs don't like it), but writing tends to result in better retention.

20 years ago people typed notes, let alone now, and the vast vast majority of those notes will not be written in "cursive", as most people drop that backwards skill as soon as they are allowed.

Re: Message in a bottle from Scottish girl found in Norway after 25 years

#87

Post by sabjut »

nasmorn wrote: post #69
koolba wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience at the beach around 6 or 7 but it ended with me getting yelled at by some surfers for littering.

It is a very romantic way of littering though

I remember throwing plastic bottles off a river bridge with my class in 3rd grade. While it's true that the river connected to an ocean some 400km downstream, I doubt they made it further than the next best river bank.

I sincerely hope that since then schools have stopped encouraging children to throw plastic in waterways like this.

Re: Message in a bottle from Scottish girl found in Norway after 25 years

#88

Post by mindcrime »

smabie wrote: post #64
scoot wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree - my first thought was that the writing looked "pre-cursive". As a late teen I abandoned cursive in favor of something that I could read. These days about the only thing I write by hand is my signature. It's a squiggle.

I'm sort of embarrassed to admit it but I can no longer write anymore. I can barely hold a pen and make any letter at all... anyone else feel like this?

I also can no longer write in cursive, but I don't feel bad about it. It's an archaic and un-needed skill, a leftover relic of a bygone age. Also, I could never write in cursive particularly well to begin with... started getting nasty notes in my report cards about that starting from primary school, so as far as I'm concerned, "Good Riddance."

Re: Message in a bottle from Scottish girl found in Norway after 25 years

#89

Post by Broken_Hippo »

DocTomoe wrote: post #83
iso1631 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.tes.com/magazine/teaching-learning/general/do-we... Someone defending this outdatd practice despite "the tide turning" against it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41927258 Quoting slow children who can't read by the age of five somehow benefit, and rather than testing what children know we should punish them for not having outdated skills > In the same way, bad handwriting leads to poorer test…

From your second link: > It tested students by asking them to take notes from a lecture, using either a laptop or a pen and paper, and then tested their recall on both facts and deeper conceptual questions. > > Essentially, the study found that students taking long-form notes on pen and paper tended to process the information on a deeper level. And that's what we (should) send kids to school for.

And that's what we (should) send kids to school for.

Is that what we expect out of 6-year-olds, though? Probably not. We expect elementary kids to play and learn basic concepts of things and about the world around them. There is a clear limit to how "deep" a 7-year-old is going to be simply because of maturity and lack of knowledge.

We expect more in later schooling years - and that is what your quote refers to. Older children, listening to a lecture. It doesn't mention specifically that this was cursive, either: They were comparing it to typing.

And we don't want to force it, either: Later in that same article, it mentions, "typing may help significantly increase exam grades, according to the British Dyslexia Association. And those with physical impairments have long used technology to record their thoughts."

Pretty much, writing is a tool that might help you learn assuming you have a neurotypical brain, and even then there are likely other tools you can employ instead.

Re: Message in a bottle from Scottish girl found in Norway after 25 years

#90

Post by Symbiote »

iso1631 wrote: post #6
OJFord wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it really changed? Or do we just not keep up with it outside of/after leaving school any more? I'm a bit younger than her and was certainly taught properly (in KS1, not 2, if my quick search is correct that KS2 starts at form/year/grade 3) - I just quite quickly stopped using it and now my writing is an only-half-joined-up 'nonsense scrawl'.

My kids are in year 2 and 5. Year 5 had perfectly legible handwriting (not quite as good as the stuff in the image, but pretty good) until they forced the joined up shit starting in year 3. Looking at other words on the wall confirms this is normal - writing goes back severely in KS2 because of this 1960s view that you have to be able to write large amounts of prose at speed.

I've looked at some teaching materials and examples for KS2 and KS3 in England.

It seems there's now more emphasis on letter forms than there was in the 1990s, when I was being taught "joined-up writing". I didn't have to put a stupid tail on the left of the C at the beginning of "cat", or any other round initial letter. Let alone the tail on a lower case initial H, or any capital letters.

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