711–720 of 837 posts
The future of currency ladies and gentlemen. This money is literally gone. Unrecoverable. Like he took the money out to a barrel and burned it. Only he didn't get any warmth out of it in exchange.
Imagine doing this with your life savings
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Normally you do not have to actually directly interact with the legal system to reverse a fraudulent bank transaction. The banks have internal policies to comply with the legal system, because the other outcome is more expensive for them.
Um, what? I did. Banks didn’t do anything when I got defrauded by wire except tell me they can’t do anything.
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From what I can tell, the underlying issue is that everything is spaghetti code written in a dynamically typed language. Ignoring that, it's nuts that the best practice is "send a little money, and see if it works". Apparently they don't even have a working transaction simulator that just runs the relevant logic on your laptop so you can see what it will do.
> From what I can tell, the underlying issue is that everything is spaghetti code written in a dynamically typed language. We need to re-write this in Rust before there can be universal acceptance!
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So your definition for "valid action" is just that the eth network lets them do it? They clearly didn't want to burn £500k, and that is now irrecoverable, alongside 260 other people who made the same mistake, on a smart contract that forgoes validation for gas fees. How is this not invalid?
> So your definition for "valid action" is just that the eth network lets them do it? Yes, this is indeed the definition for "valid", that the protocol allows them to do it. It was a valid action, but not the action the user actually wanted to perform. There are two ways of avoiding these scenarios: A) use UIs and don't interact with the protocol without safeguards, as the UI will prevent you from making mistakes (th…
Most likely your bank will reject the transaction and not even defund your account - as you mentioned, the IBAN itself is already designed to prevent human error.
If by chance you “crafted” a technically MOD-97 valid but not existing IBAN and the money goes out to the other bank (PACS.008), the other bank cannot book it (as the account doesn’t exist) and should automatically return it to you (PACS.004).
If by chance the other bank is incompliant and does not return the money, you can have your bank send a recall message (CAMT.056) to try and retrieve the funds. The other bank is then compelled to either refund the money (PACS.004 again) or at the least officially communicate they’re keeping your money (CAMT.029).
At that point, there’s still law and legal avenues to pursue.
One thing that does not and can not happen though, is for the money to vanish into a black hole and be removed from the economy. That is what a stable, standardized and reasonably regulated industry with some centralization does for you.
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It doesn't really matter that 'someone did something they should not'. People will always press the Magic Red Button without knowing what it does with some, if rare, consistency. That's human nature, ergo, our systems must accommodate. The fact it's possible to lose $500K whereupon 'nothing can be done about it' is a 'dealbreaker' for this tech. The truth is, when one goes down the rabbit hole, one discovers that ETH…
> People will always press the Magic Red Button without knowing what it does with some, if rare, consistency. That's human nature, ergo, our systems must accommodate. Are you also frustrated that you can run `rm -rf --no-preserve-root` on your computer and it's not possible to get back your data unless you had backups since before? Clearly, this is a dealbreaker for UNIX because it allows you to delete your root part…
Oh, yes, I'm one of those 'normies' or 'MBA Suits' (!) who can't possibly understand the genius and vision of Crypto and Blockchain.
We see it is a 'Pyramid Scheme Scam' at worst, and completely useless distraction at best, because we're just not enlightened.
You got me.
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What % of the people that use IBAN, know that there is a checksum, know what a checksum even is, or how to apply it? Thankfully we have banks to deal with that - and legal framework that can help us undo problems. "But you can use an exchange with ETH!" Like banks? Making such networks ostensibly not 'decentralized'? The entire point of Crypto/Blockchain is that is decentralized and is accessible to everyone. If it r…
Cryptocurrencies give you the OPTION to use a trust-less decentralized system. If that’s not your cup of tea, nobody is forcing you to opt-in to this system. Go use a bank, or a centralized exchange, or whatever makes you happy. > At absolute minimum, the purveyors of such tech should be providing 'off the shelf' free wallet software that solves all of these problems of magical knowledge. UI is continually improving…
"But the “purveyors of this tech” don’t owe you anything"
You're right.
And it's why nobody in world uses crypto, blockchain or any of this nonsense for doing anything productive and use it solely for trading magic numbers.
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I think you missed that the user went beyond just using something to swap ETH for WETH and instead interacted directly (manually) with the contract, effectively bypassing the safe-guards that are already in place (even without exchanges) to prevent issues. The user basically guessed that this is how you turn ETH into WETH and vice-versa, without actually reading anything about it. If the user searched for "How do I t…
It was not “manual”. It was using MetaMask, one of the most used wallets and most recomended one! Its not like going to a shell and putting a random command. It was one of the most used GUIs for crypto!
These are not the words of somebody who lost half a million dollars, who in a regular non-crypto situation with a fellow person, a bank, a credit card, and so on, would be fuming at the mouth.
These are the worlds of a true believer, to a degree that this is cult-level scary considering the amount involved.
>A life-changing lesson for me
Doesn't seem like it was...
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Are lock boxes in banks still a thing in the US? In Europe you have to go to some central bank to get such a service, I don't think medium cities branches do that.
> In Europe you have to go to some central bank to get such a service, I don't think medium cities branches do that. What? No. It's absolutely normal even in very small towns (~ 5k). Also, post offices offer the service.
You can get a PO box but it is not a safe deposit and would not keep there anything valuable for longer that a day or two.
Getting a box in the bank on the other hand was tough as I was looking for it in Poland/Netherlands/Germany, banks don't care and it is more hassle for them than it is worth.
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It's like a libertarian utopia. Literally everything is an individual responsibility with no wider recourse. Want validation? Other people don't want to pay for stuff they're not validating... so it's on you to be careful. Accidentally fuck up? Not our problem, that's on you for not calling the right API. Want your money back? We're not paying money to cover for other people's mistakes. You're on your own bud.
What about the Eth DAO forks? How was that individual responsibility?