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Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

thesaint.scot

81–90 of 223 posts

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#81

Worth reading Robert Sapolsky on the topic of inequality here[1]. Inequality itself (not poverty, and accounted for the material disadvantages ), causes about half of the difference in health and life expectancy outcomes in developed nations, makes people at a neurological level opportunistic and causes biological stress in populations which results in violence, crime, isolation, mental illness, and so forth. That's…

Who is going to do the redistribution and how? It sounds nice, these people have too much and these have too little, let’s optimise. But redistribution via taxes imho leads to politicians having larger budgets for scoring political goals. And anyway how is it meant to work? If you equalise assets, you’ll find wealth drifting away from it again, as some eat through their assets and some invest/save. It’s a known effec…

>My personal answer, and seemingly not so popular, is education, at all stages. Poor people send their kids to poor schools that don’t give their kids enough skills to make it in life. Find these schools, through taxes, so that every child gets a stab at a good education. Provide professional courses for adults, financial support to those who want to upskill.

Success in schooling is much more than just providing a good building, teachers and resources(computer/books/etc.). It is also a function of what the child has to go through in his/her day to day life. Those early years cement what kind of person the child becomes so you can provide all the Adult education you want, it is too late. Is the family around to provide support outside of school hours? Is the neighborhood stable enough so that you are in an environment to not fall into the edge cases of our society (ex: Are there groups that discourage breaking out of a specific mold?)

Hell this happens even with minorities in suburbs that provide them with all the resources needed for success. As a muslim living in a upper class right wing leaning suburban town I ingrained a self defeating mindset after 9/11 that I cannot achieve specific things and fulfill my wildest dreams. Despite this I ended up relatively successful thanks to the environment I was in giving me multiple chances after I failed time and time again.

Others don't have as many chances. The school is not the only problem. It is the system around the school that resulted in the school being in such a poor state to begin with. Some of this is being brought up(and subsequently banned) in topics such as Critical Race Theory (CRT). These talking points that you have expressed are sometimes brought up in Libertarian and right wing circles. It will not lead to this issue being solved in my opinion.

I have seen it with my own eyes in others as well. One of my many failures led me to being put on probation at my University: A school that prides itself on helping the largest # of minorities achieve STEM degrees in the country. I ended up at community college where I saw first hand how they ran many dozens of entry level math, physics, history and english sections that end up being empty by the end of the semester because there are huge swaths of the population that just cannot get past the first courses in a college level program. So they re-run these sections in all possible schedule combinations to maximize the chances of success. Still a majority students don't make it and give up. Keep in mind many of these people also get enough of a grant to likely be getting their tuition covered. The system failed these people years ago and just free education does not make up for it. They needed a stable environment from childhood in all aspects to maximize the chances of success.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#82

Yes can confirm, in the USSR we had no political polarization. Everyone was always satisfied with the ruling party all the time. It was great joy.

Comrad your medal from the committee on negating party slander is on its way.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#83
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe it. I think it's woo. There's no reason for my health to be harmed just because someone has more than me. I'm open to being proven wrong, but I think this is another social science fad, another victim of academia's ideological blinkers and confirmation bias avalanche. It'll be in and out, just like how eggs and wine and chocolate are good for you on Tuesday and bad for you again by Thursday. EDIT: Yes…

> There's no reason for my health to be harmed just because someone has more than me. Being angry all the time can harm your health. Maybe being envious all the time can too.

Then envious people can work on themselves, as we've always understood envy to be a moral problem.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#84
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe it. I think it's woo. There's no reason for my health to be harmed just because someone has more than me. I'm open to being proven wrong, but I think this is another social science fad, another victim of academia's ideological blinkers and confirmation bias avalanche. It'll be in and out, just like how eggs and wine and chocolate are good for you on Tuesday and bad for you again by Thursday. EDIT: Yes…

> There's no reason for my health to be harmed just because someone has more than me. You would think so, but I've read several articles that suggest this isn't the case. One example that comes to mind is that in some communities kids experience social stress/bullying if their SMS bubbles aren't blue (because it implies you are too poor to afford an iPhone and can only afford a "lesser" Android): https://www.wsj.com/…

Are you suggesting the Government buy an iPhone 13 for everyone?

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#85
post #51

This study is not a study - they created a mathematical model that has a bunch of behavioural assumptions, given those assumptions reducing inequality improves it. It seems completely plausible that a different set of assumptions could create the opposite. A study would mean looking at actual people, and say directly reducing the inequality. Obviously such a study would be infeasible (time, money, ethics, etc), but t…

> A study would mean looking at actual people, and say directly reducing the inequality. Obviously such a study would be infeasible

Hence models. Your complaint boils down to "This is a model of reality, and not reality therefore it's meaningless." This is a very shallow criticism. Yes, all models come with assumptions. If you have a criticism, it should be about specific assumptions, and not the fact that this is a model.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#86

Worth reading Robert Sapolsky on the topic of inequality here[1]. Inequality itself (not poverty, and accounted for the material disadvantages ), causes about half of the difference in health and life expectancy outcomes in developed nations, makes people at a neurological level opportunistic and causes biological stress in populations which results in violence, crime, isolation, mental illness, and so forth. That's…

Who is going to do the redistribution and how? It sounds nice, these people have too much and these have too little, let’s optimise. But redistribution via taxes imho leads to politicians having larger budgets for scoring political goals. And anyway how is it meant to work? If you equalise assets, you’ll find wealth drifting away from it again, as some eat through their assets and some invest/save. It’s a known effec…

I don't think education is a money problem at this point. Maybe it can be gamified more but in the end I think it is a cultural thing. Victimizing everybody doesn't help and stopping it would probably have a better outcome than throwing money at it.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#87

Worth reading Robert Sapolsky on the topic of inequality here[1]. Inequality itself (not poverty, and accounted for the material disadvantages ), causes about half of the difference in health and life expectancy outcomes in developed nations, makes people at a neurological level opportunistic and causes biological stress in populations which results in violence, crime, isolation, mental illness, and so forth. That's…

I don't believe it. I think it's woo. There's no reason for my health to be harmed just because someone has more than me. I'm open to being proven wrong, but I think this is another social science fad, another victim of academia's ideological blinkers and confirmation bias avalanche. It'll be in and out, just like how eggs and wine and chocolate are good for you on Tuesday and bad for you again by Thursday. EDIT: Yes…

Since you're asserting that you don't believe the results of this research because it's "woo" -- can you explain what type of evidence, or what degree of impact, or how deep or impeccable the link must be established for you to accept it?

Is it even possible that you are, as you say, open to being proven wrong? (I ask this in good faith, because I've been arguing on the internet for 25+ years, and whenever someone says this, I end up asking them what would persuade them and the answer is usually "nothing," which, ... okay ..., but I am an eternal optimist and I strive to take people at their written word.)

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#88
post #3

> The study says, “We see that sufficient redistribution can reduce both inequality and polarisation, although a high degree of redistribution is required to prevent polarisation.” Have they factored in the act of wealth redistribution itself being polarizing? From a statistical/theoretical perspective it checks out, but I bet practically speaking if you actually tried "a high degree of [wealth] distribution", the mi…

And if they succeed, we'd be in Harrison Bergeron's universe.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#89
Polarization is due to cultural issues, not economic ones. And no, those cultural issues don't stem from economic issues either. That's a Marxian base/superstructure analysis of the situation, which isn't accurate.

Furthermore, inequality will always be with us. Pareto principle is an actual thing and is mathematically sound when it comes to economics. Generally, the top 20% will hold 80% of the wealth. Many phenomena exhibit this distribution.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#90

Worth reading Robert Sapolsky on the topic of inequality here[1]. Inequality itself (not poverty, and accounted for the material disadvantages ), causes about half of the difference in health and life expectancy outcomes in developed nations, makes people at a neurological level opportunistic and causes biological stress in populations which results in violence, crime, isolation, mental illness, and so forth. That's…

Who is going to do the redistribution and how? It sounds nice, these people have too much and these have too little, let’s optimise. But redistribution via taxes imho leads to politicians having larger budgets for scoring political goals. And anyway how is it meant to work? If you equalise assets, you’ll find wealth drifting away from it again, as some eat through their assets and some invest/save. It’s a known effec…

Totally agree with this. There is no shortage of ideas/ideals, practical ways of achieving said goals are few and far between. The problem is that many of these problems are very complex and empirical solutions don’t win elections.
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