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Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

thesaint.scot

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Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#21

Post by johnchristopher »

MattGaiser wrote: post #11
johnchristopher wrote: post #5

Hard to do scapegoating when people's needs are met.

Needs will just increase to meet the threshold for scapegoating. We are the richest and most prosperous humans to ever walk the earth. Scapegoating still exists.

> We are the richest and most prosperous humans to ever walk the earth.

Nope. Inequality is increasing locally in the west. There are a lot of poor people everywhere you look.

> Needs will just increase to meet the threshold for scapegoating.

That goes against the submission but okay. I suppose you are also against minimal wage increases.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#22

Post by praxulus »

HideousKojima wrote: post #12

The study sounds like a crock of horseshit: "In this model, we assume that a large population of individuals comprises two distinct identity groups. These identities are assumed fixed, and thus correspond to a fixed feature of identity such as race, religious heritage, or socioeconomic background. Although such identities are fixed in the model, the salience of the identity, and therefore its impact on behavior, vari…

Not to defend their methodology, but your attempt to equate the GOP baseball shooting with an attempted coup says a lot more about your biases than the study authors'.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#23

Post by civilized »

Barrin92 wrote: post #20

Worth reading Robert Sapolsky on the topic of inequality here[1]. Inequality itself (not poverty, and accounted for the material disadvantages ), causes about half of the difference in health and life expectancy outcomes in developed nations, makes people at a neurological level opportunistic and causes biological stress in populations which results in violence, crime, isolation, mental illness, and so forth. That's…

I don't believe it. I think it's woo. There's no reason for my health to be harmed just because someone has more than me.

I'm open to being proven wrong, but I think this is another social science fad, another victim of academia's ideological blinkers and confirmation bias avalanche.

It'll be in and out, just like how eggs and wine and chocolate are good for you on Tuesday and bad for you again by Thursday.

EDIT: Yes, I'm sure envious people can tie themselves in knots over inequality, but I don't see this as a social problem. It's a personal psychological problem for those people. And I am skeptical that it is so common as to be my problem.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#24

Post by [deleted] »

civilized wrote: post #23
Barrin92 wrote: post #20

Worth reading Robert Sapolsky on the topic of inequality here[1]. Inequality itself (not poverty, and accounted for the material disadvantages ), causes about half of the difference in health and life expectancy outcomes in developed nations, makes people at a neurological level opportunistic and causes biological stress in populations which results in violence, crime, isolation, mental illness, and so forth. That's…

I don't believe it. I think it's woo. There's no reason for my health to be harmed just because someone has more than me. I'm open to being proven wrong, but I think this is another social science fad, another victim of academia's ideological blinkers and confirmation bias avalanche. It'll be in and out, just like how eggs and wine and chocolate are good for you on Tuesday and bad for you again by Thursday. EDIT: Yes…

[deleted]

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#25

Post by retrac »

arrakis2021 wrote: post #10

Yes can confirm, in the USSR we had no political polarization. Everyone was always satisfied with the ruling party all the time. It was great joy.

In practice the USSR was an extremely unequal society in terms of wealth distribution. Growing awareness of the enormous gulf in the standard of living and political power between the nomenklatura and the quasi-enslaved contributed substantially to its collapse.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#26

Post by pyuser583 »

dylan604 wrote: post #15
umvi wrote: post #3

> The study says, “We see that sufficient redistribution can reduce both inequality and polarisation, although a high degree of redistribution is required to prevent polarisation.” Have they factored in the act of wealth redistribution itself being polarizing? From a statistical/theoretical perspective it checks out, but I bet practically speaking if you actually tried "a high degree of [wealth] distribution", the mi…

>it would probably be good to investigate alternative methods of reducing inequality as well. The serfs will always outnumber the lords. It's just a matter of keeping them pacified to sufficient levels so that revolting isn't a serious concern. As you've suggested, other things to keep the masses pacified can come in many forms other than direct payments of cash. Stop reducing spending on public schools, public trans…

Unless “the serfs” are hate and fear other “serfs” more than they hate and fear “the lords.”

This is very much a real dynamic.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#27

Post by lifeisstillgood »

civilized wrote: post #23
Barrin92 wrote: post #20

Worth reading Robert Sapolsky on the topic of inequality here[1]. Inequality itself (not poverty, and accounted for the material disadvantages ), causes about half of the difference in health and life expectancy outcomes in developed nations, makes people at a neurological level opportunistic and causes biological stress in populations which results in violence, crime, isolation, mental illness, and so forth. That's…

I don't believe it. I think it's woo. There's no reason for my health to be harmed just because someone has more than me. I'm open to being proven wrong, but I think this is another social science fad, another victim of academia's ideological blinkers and confirmation bias avalanche. It'll be in and out, just like how eggs and wine and chocolate are good for you on Tuesday and bad for you again by Thursday. EDIT: Yes…

It's not that they have more. It's that you know they have more, that it's not fair they have more because they are not better than you, and the path to get more is blocked / unfairly policed. And that eats you up inside. And that eating up is constantly firing stress hormones and heardening your heart.

In short, anger leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side.

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#28

Post by [deleted] »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18
HideousKojima wrote: post #12

The study sounds like a crock of horseshit: "In this model, we assume that a large population of individuals comprises two distinct identity groups. These identities are assumed fixed, and thus correspond to a fixed feature of identity such as race, religious heritage, or socioeconomic background. Although such identities are fixed in the model, the salience of the identity, and therefore its impact on behavior, vari…

You say "wanted to do for over a century" yet "the left" has been reducing inequality for several centuries now, abolishing monarchy, aristocrary, slavery and such, introducing voting and democracy and human rights and all that kind of thing. People seem to generally like it.

[deleted]

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#29

Post by HideousKojima »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18
HideousKojima wrote: post #12

The study sounds like a crock of horseshit: "In this model, we assume that a large population of individuals comprises two distinct identity groups. These identities are assumed fixed, and thus correspond to a fixed feature of identity such as race, religious heritage, or socioeconomic background. Although such identities are fixed in the model, the salience of the identity, and therefore its impact on behavior, vari…

You say "wanted to do for over a century" yet "the left" has been reducing inequality for several centuries now, abolishing monarchy, aristocrary, slavery and such, introducing voting and democracy and human rights and all that kind of thing. People seem to generally like it.

Some of the earliest efforts to abolish slavery came from Catholicism, especially Catholic Spain and Portugal. Not really sure how the left can take credit for that, but whatever floats your boat

Re: Reducing inequality can reverse political polarisation: study

#30

Post by civilized »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #27
civilized wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe it. I think it's woo. There's no reason for my health to be harmed just because someone has more than me. I'm open to being proven wrong, but I think this is another social science fad, another victim of academia's ideological blinkers and confirmation bias avalanche. It'll be in and out, just like how eggs and wine and chocolate are good for you on Tuesday and bad for you again by Thursday. EDIT: Yes…

It's not that they have more. It's that you know they have more, that it's not fair they have more because they are not better than you, and the path to get more is blocked / unfairly policed. And that eats you up inside. And that eating up is constantly firing stress hormones and heardening your heart. In short, anger leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side.

Then the research is inaccurately described. They should talk about perceived injustice, not merely inequality.

Even the Chinese Communist Party came to realize that people must be allowed to reap unequal rewards (based on their talent and labor) to escape desperate poverty. Their agricultural productivity tripled when they let people sell some of their produce rather than turning it all over to the state [1].

This is how Deng Xiaoping began his rise to power in a country gripped by the madness of Maoism. By accepting inequality even though the Communists have always demonized its socioeconomic manifestations.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_Rural_Reform

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