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Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

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Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#191

Post by pseudalopex »

baryphonic wrote: post #182
pseudalopex wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (how many decades ago were they culturally relevant?) We're talking about them now. > threats They didn't threaten. Young directed his management to remove his music. Mitchell said she decided to remove hers. Is your problem they said why?

[deleted]

> Please read what I wrote again. I said Mitchell & Young were entirely free to participate in Spotify or not.

I didn't say you didn't.

> I'll leave it up to you to decide if that constitutes a threat.

It doesn't. A threat is an signal of intent before an action. Young jumped to the action.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#193

Post by pseudalopex »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #178
pseudalopex wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (how many decades ago were they culturally relevant?) We're talking about them now. > threats They didn't threaten. Young directed his management to remove his music. Mitchell said she decided to remove hers. Is your problem they said why?

> We're talking about them now. Not as artists that have anything currently to say, though. We're talking about them as people who are trying to keep someone else from talking.

> Not as artists that have anything currently to say, though. We're talking about them as people who are trying to keep someone else from talking.

We're talking about them as people who just said something.

Young sold half his music rights for $150 million last year. He signed a deal with SiriusXM within days after he left Spotify. Mitchell won a Grammy in 2016 and was nominated this year. Their music continued to be relevant to someone obviously.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#194

Post by lnxg33k1 »

DoctorOW wrote: post #184
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of tolerance paradox, in order to protect free speech we should avoid the free speech that want to censor others, otherwise we all lose the right. So of course pulling their music is their right, but it stops being acceptable when they pull their rights in order to prevent others from speaking. I am of the idea that we must tolerate free speech up to the point where this free speech is used to prevent othe…

This comment speaks like it was written as a joke. Why pretend like anyone's even remotely considering banning Joe Rogan from Spotify? Why pretend like there's a shortage of research? There's a vast amount of scientific research you could peruse if you have questions. There's no societal need for ignorant bullshit.

To be honest I have no time to waste with you, also because people who just avoid whole segments of articles in order to be right are usually either not genuinely taking part of the conversation or they lack comprehension skills, so one ends up being like Don Quixote fighting windmills

Quoted word by word from the article: "Last Monday, Young announced that he had asked his management and record label to remove his music from Spotify in protest of the streaming service's decision to host Joe Rogan's podcast"

If that doesn't mean that he wants to ban Joe Rogan from spotify, then what does it mean?

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#195

Post by baryphonic »

pseudalopex wrote: post #191
baryphonic wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> Please read what I wrote again. I said Mitchell & Young were entirely free to participate in Spotify or not. I didn't say you didn't. > I'll leave it up to you to decide if that constitutes a threat. It doesn't. A threat is an signal of intent before an action. Young jumped to the action.

I was wrong and stand corrected: it is not a threat.

What Young said is more of an opening offer of a quid pro quo.

The overall point I was making stands, that freedom of speech (both the legal protection and the ethical principle) does not extend to coercive speech like it does to persuasive and expressive speech.

If some artist simply said, "Take my music off of Spotify because I have no confidence in the platform," then that would clearly be fully protected. If another said, "Spotify has until Feb 1 to remove Joe Rogan, or I'm pulling my catalog until they do," I think that'd be a lot more risky, especially if the artist had prominence.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#196

Post by henry_bone »

falseprofit wrote: post #15
assttoasstmgr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It literally mirrors the plot to "Caddyshack": A couple of old, out of touch rich people throwing a tantrum because they have to share a club with a loud gregarious buffoon that's wildly popular with others.

sure, if the buffoon was spreading dangerous misinformation and misogyny.

What misinformation? And was it Rogan's view or that of one of his guests? And is it actually misinformation, or just controversial? Or you (& others) just disagree?

I mean, a lot has been said on Rogan's podcast over the years. Not all of it is likely to be correct. Even if we restrict ourselves to considering topics related to the Sars-Cov-2 epidemic, Rogan has spoken to many people, about many aspects of the situation.

I for one, quite enjoy his podcast. He speaks to many, varied very interesting and intelligent people, on range of topics. Politicians, scientists, doctors, special operators, hunters, actors, comedians, philosophers, ethicists.

But Joni Mitchell & Neil Young want Spotify to remove him from Spotify, because they disagree with something (or things) that was said on his podcast? And everyone agrees that this is a sound and reasonable thing?

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#197

Post by [deleted] »

vesinisa wrote: post #146
systemvoltage wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This needs to be drilled harder: People can express their views until cows come home. Knock yourself out. But, that's precisely what Young is not doing. He wants to silence (and deny the FoS) Rogan. That is the distinction that keeps being ignored in this thread and elsewhere.

Nobody's FoS is under threat here. FoS does not entitle access to a broadcast medium, i.e. Spotify or YouTube. FoS simply means being able to publish your views without government censorship. If you create your own newspaper, Spotify or YouTube you also control its editorial policy (what gets selected for publication, what gets taken down). But you can not demand that the New York Times, Spotify or Google change thei…

[deleted]

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#198

Post by pseudalopex »

baryphonic wrote: post #195
pseudalopex wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please read what I wrote again. I said Mitchell & Young were entirely free to participate in Spotify or not. I didn't say you didn't. > I'll leave it up to you to decide if that constitutes a threat. It doesn't. A threat is an signal of intent before an action. Young jumped to the action.

I was wrong and stand corrected: it is not a threat. What Young said is more of an opening offer of a quid pro quo. The overall point I was making stands, that freedom of speech (both the legal protection and the ethical principle) does not extend to coercive speech like it does to persuasive and expressive speech. If some artist simply said, "Take my music off of Spotify because I have no confidence in the platform,…

What Young said was more of a parting.

Tortious interference requires the defendant's conduct was illegal in some other way apparently. In California at least.[1]

[1] https://www.bonalaw.com/insights/legal-resources/what-are-th...

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#199

Post by DoctorOW »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #194
DoctorOW wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment speaks like it was written as a joke. Why pretend like anyone's even remotely considering banning Joe Rogan from Spotify? Why pretend like there's a shortage of research? There's a vast amount of scientific research you could peruse if you have questions. There's no societal need for ignorant bullshit.

To be honest I have no time to waste with you, also because people who just avoid whole segments of articles in order to be right are usually either not genuinely taking part of the conversation or they lack comprehension skills, so one ends up being like Don Quixote fighting windmills Quoted word by word from the article: "Last Monday, Young announced that he had asked his management and record label to remove his m…

It means he isn't pleased with Spotify, and as such wants to remove his music. Pretty obvious. Hypothetically, imagine Spotify lost so much money losing Neil Young they remove the entire podcast. Young still might not come back because the point isn't about banning Rogan, the point is there's a real consequence for the misinformation they paid for.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#200

Post by rektide »

finite_jest wrote: post #174
rektide wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young wasn't trying to remove Rogan's music. He was exercising his positive liberty, to act as he wanted: which was to not be on a platform with people he perceived as ultra-shitty & socially-ruinous. Young had (nearly) no expectation of causing change. There's a possibility he thought this really would, right now, have enacted change, but I highly doubt he was so deluded. Young simply knew he couldn't be party to su…

> Young wasn't trying to remove Rogan's music. I very much disagree. We could be a bit more accurate/pedantic by saying "he's trying to mount pressure to remove Rogan's podcast from Spotify" instead, but that doesn't change much. > not be on a platform with people he perceived as ultra-shitty & socially-ruinous. I cancelled my Spotify a long time ago, but I don't think it's much of a social platform. If you don't wan…

whether or not Spotify is a social platform is irrelevant. Young didn't want to be involved with a business so directly supporting & fostering his/our worlds foes.
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