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Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

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Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#181

Post by pupppet »

gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

> The free speech position is the principled one.

He will still have his free speech off Spotify. Don’t confuse freedom of speech with freedom of promotion.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#182

Post by baryphonic »

pseudalopex wrote: post #155
baryphonic wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here. I'm not sure I agree. Young and Mitchell (how many decades ago were they culturally relevant?) are certainly free to participate on Spotify or not. They certainly cannot be forced to. However, if Rogan were booted from Spo…

> (how many decades ago were they culturally relevant?) We're talking about them now. > threats They didn't threaten. Young directed his management to remove his music. Mitchell said she decided to remove hers. Is your problem they said why?

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Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#184

Post by DoctorOW »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #57
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean in the interests of free speech, artists who you think have an inflated sense of their own importance should necessarily sacrifice their freedom of speech for someone who is parroting dangerous untruths? Pulling their music from Spotify is speech. Why can they _not_ do it? What makes what they are doing a "horrible precedent"?

It's a bit of tolerance paradox, in order to protect free speech we should avoid the free speech that want to censor others, otherwise we all lose the right. So of course pulling their music is their right, but it stops being acceptable when they pull their rights in order to prevent others from speaking. I am of the idea that we must tolerate free speech up to the point where this free speech is used to prevent othe…

This comment speaks like it was written as a joke. Why pretend like anyone's even remotely considering banning Joe Rogan from Spotify? Why pretend like there's a shortage of research? There's a vast amount of scientific research you could peruse if you have questions. There's no societal need for ignorant bullshit.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#185

Post by beerandt »

mulmen wrote: post #160
beerandt wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using leverage in an attempt to convince a business to silence someone else... is not an argument for free expression. It's free expression arguing against allowing others to exercise free expression. >There is no "free speech position". Who is Rogan trying to silence? Spotify didn't give into demands to censor. Those are free speech positions.

Why not? I can say "dang should ban beerandt or I will stop posting" (I don't believe this and I am not making such a claim). dang can do whatever he wants in response, including nothing at all. HN is free to downvote me or say they disagree, or not. That's the competitive marketplace of ideas. If you offer something unappealing it will fail. > Spotify didn't give into demands to censor. Censorship is a loaded term i…

>I can say "dang should ban.."

It is your free expression to make that argument, but the argument itself is against free expression.

>incapable of censorship

That's a mighty narrow definition of censorship. (I didn't say government censorship or even mention the 1st amendment.)

What is it that you would call Young's implied request to Spotify, if not an ultimatum to censor? Especially given the context that his demand is founded on opposing the content of Rogan's speech, and that he is attempting to leverage an authoritative power (Spotify) to unilaterally remove Rogan's published media and prevent it's distribution.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#186

Post by gilbetron »

gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

fReeDoM oF sPeeCh is so ridiculous but 10x in this situation. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, this has to do with not backing a platform that is ok with misinformation. Rogan isn't a guy that wants all sides heard, he's just trying to get even more rich than he currently is. He knows his audience and he caters to them no matter the ethical cost.

Neil Young doesn't want to be associated with it. This is as much about freedom of speech as Fox News cutting off people who go off agenda.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#187

Post by LMYahooTFY »

pseudalopex wrote: post #100
gonehome wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I am doing this because Spotify is spreading fake information about vaccines – potentially causing death to those who believe the disinformation being spread by them ... They can have Rogan or Young. Not both." I read this as if you want me get rid of him, but I’ll paste it here for clarity. Others may see it differently.

You left out the important part. "I want you to let Spotify know immediately TODAY that I want all my music off their platform". Probably he would reconsider if they dropped Rogan. He didn't expect it or ask.

He didn't ask?

This is ridiculously disingenuous. He made an ultimatum, and his position is very clear. This is too obvious to honestly debate. If his desire isn't for Spotify to remove/censor Rogan, I imagine he'll clarify. Because he's blatantly calling for it.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#188

Post by pseudalopex »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #187
pseudalopex wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You left out the important part. "I want you to let Spotify know immediately TODAY that I want all my music off their platform". Probably he would reconsider if they dropped Rogan. He didn't expect it or ask.

He didn't ask? This is ridiculously disingenuous. He made an ultimatum, and his position is very clear. This is too obvious to honestly debate. If his desire isn't for Spotify to remove/censor Rogan, I imagine he'll clarify. Because he's blatantly calling for it.

Young told his management to tell Spotify to remove his music. He didn't tell them to negotiate. Is your problem he said why he wanted his music removed?

"I support free speech. I have never been in favor of censorship. Private companies have the right to choose what they profit from, just as I can choose not to have my music support a platform that disseminates harmful information."[1]

[1] https://neilyoungarchives.com/news/1/article?id=Spotify-More...

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#189

Post by zzzeek »

beerandt wrote: post #179
zzzeek wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neil Young doesn't have a GMO podcast nor any kind of political show on Spotify, nor is opposition to GMO technology an immediate grave threat to public health. Your point is completely irrelevant.

>nor is opposition to GMO technology an immediate grave threat to public health The complete lack of awareness of the hypocrisy is why it's relevant. If you took crop GMO, got rid of the one-time gene modification, but instead, started growing the unmodified plant... and then just directly injected those modified genes such that billions of cells began expressing/building proteins from the modified genes... ...you'd…

here is why people don't like GMOs. it has nothing to do with the genetic modification. it is due to the rationale by which GMOs are used in the US, which are exactly: 1. to allow much greater use of herbicides 2. to allow much greater use of pesticides 3. to allow seeds to be patented and subject to license fees such that control of the food supply is handed over to multinational corporations.

now you can get into debating that glyophosphate is just fine and you could just drink a whole jar of it no problem (yeah right) and all that, you could get into how it's just fine if there's no more seeds available to humanity that don't come with license fees, but that's what the actual debate is about.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#190

Post by [deleted] »

beerandt wrote: post #185
mulmen wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? I can say "dang should ban beerandt or I will stop posting" (I don't believe this and I am not making such a claim). dang can do whatever he wants in response, including nothing at all. HN is free to downvote me or say they disagree, or not. That's the competitive marketplace of ideas. If you offer something unappealing it will fail. > Spotify didn't give into demands to censor. Censorship is a loaded term i…

>I can say "dang should ban.." It is your free expression to make that argument, but the argument itself is against free expression. >incapable of censorship That's a mighty narrow definition of censorship. (I didn't say government censorship or even mention the 1st amendment.) What is it that you would call Young's implied request to Spotify, if not an ultimatum to censor? Especially given the context that his deman…

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